Women don’t want a league of our own
Today, Carol Roth wrote an incredible, blunt, truthful post about the status of women in the world of entrepreneurship, business, and Social Media. It’s called At the Business Table, Where Are the Ladies? One of the key questions Carol asks is, “Why is there a TED for women?
There was a time in our country when the general philosophy regarding racing relations was summarized by the statement, “Separate but equal.” Of course, the “separate” rang a lot more true than the “equal.” Now, we look back on those times and think, “Man, how could our nation have ever gone there?”
And yet, in so many cases, “separate but equal” still summarizes the situation that exists between men and women.
If your gut instinct is to say, “That’s hogwash,” consider the following:
The WNBA
Women’s collegiate teams versus men’s
Women’s high school teams versus men’s
The LPGA
and, as Carol mentions, TED for women.
This is not the 1940s
I suppose it’s easy to think that all of these female-specific leagues and groups are progress. After all, when we watch a movie like A League of Their Own, we see how happy women were to have their own baseball league.
There’s just a couple of little problems with this line of thinking. First, that story takes place in the 1940s, during World War II. And second, the only reason THAT league formed was because the men were off fighting the Fascists, which took a higher priority (thank goodness).
We’re into a whole new century now, not to mention several decades away from those times. Isn’t it time we move beyond a league of our own?
Women and Social Media
There are so many amazing, strong, genius women online right now that it’s truly hard to mention just a few. In addition to Carol, my days are filled with the intelligence and leadership epitomized by women like Liz Strauss, Lisa Petrilli, Amber Naslund, Marsha Collier, Ann Handley, Beth Harte, Mari Smith, Denise Wakeman, Jill Manty, Debra Leitl, Kristi Hines, and tons more. And yet, as Carol points out, if you ask who the “big names” are in Social Media, it’s mostly men who will be mentioned. Guy Kawasaki, Chris Brogan, Jay Baer, Brian Solis. The women seem kind of pushed over to the side. There are lists that focus exclusively on women, but seldom are women equally applauded with men. Seldom are women rewarded with the same respect and pull.
Why?
Maybe we need to make it happen
Maybe women aren’t getting the same kind of respect because we aren’t demanding it. I would say that it’s hard for a woman to aggressively demand respect. It is so easy in our society to call such women bad names or to attribute their ambition to “that time of the month.” But maybe we just need to keep enduring the insults. Maybe we just need to change the conversation. Maybe we need to say “no thanks” to a group slotted out for “us types.” Mix us in, please.
What do you think?
Are we stuck in a 1940s mentality, where a “league” or “group” created for women is thought to be equality? Is something else afoot?
Let’s continue the conversation.
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Margie
Thanks for continuing the dialogue. I am surprised at the number of people who are saying, “well the women aren’t asking”. I know many who are. Hell, I know I am.
I know many who claim to respect many of the voices of women, but don’t do enough to support them. Let’s continue to focus on a solution- I don’t want to whine or get any sympathy votes- but let’s find ways to raise up the women who are contributing as signficantly as their counterparts.
I agree – this is a time of action, but women have to be careful how we go about it. I think sometimes women can come off as just being whiny or petulant and that is not the path to power. It needs to be calm, serene, but steady, and we need to walk our talk for sure.
Thanks for getting the hamster rolling in my brain 🙂
Carol, Margie,
Both your replies make me ponder and one word comes to mind : Perception
Try to think about this, when we go into board meetings or events where males will be the squashing majority, what do we wear – sometimes, unconsciously ? A power suit, we tone down the feminineness so that we can be taken more seriously. Happened to me this week.
My daughter asked : Why are you dressing like a boy?
I think we must own being women and stop wanting to resemble men. We have different skills, abilities, dispositions, and we can multitask 🙂
I say, let’s be US but we will not be successful as long as we don’t support each other.
What do you think?
That’s a huge topic that I tackled not too long ago for Daria’s (@MominManagement’s) executive image series. It’s amazing what google sends you as image results when you search for “executive.” All men, pretty much, and what women there are dress exactly like the men do.
What is going on there?
You are quite right – it’s not just about making the move, it’s about changing perceptions. I’m not quite sure which one is harder!
Thanks for the mention, Margie. I’m always torn on this topic. I’m sometimes hard pressed to define the problem. I look at that list of names, and several of them are every bit as familiar to me as the men on your list.
But why, then, do we need BlogHer, for example? Do we have women’s entities because women are viewed as needing their own league- or is it simply to fill a different need that women have? I have a hard time imagining that even if there was a BlogHim that it would gain momentum.
You’ve given me much to ponder. Thanks, my friend.
I don’t know, Jill. I wonder if women feel the need for a “sisterhood” because the community at large just doesn’t cut it in terms of support. Sure, women enjoy each others’ company, just like men like to get together to watch sports or go fishing or game or whatever, but professionally, I’d like to know I have the support of men and women, or if I don’t that it’s not traced back to my gender. I think it’s a situation where the personal and professional perhaps *should* be divided.
Maybe the women who demand parity should start by refusing to do stuff like this:
http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2010/02/twitter-201002
Vanity Fair, January 2010 America’s Tweethearts
So who are you saying is at fault there?
Only one dog’s opinion, but I respected all of these women for their talent on their blogs and expertise within their industries, but one photograph gave me the, “ah, so that is how it is” moment. Nobody forced the “Tweethearts” to pose in flasher raincoats. They should have insisted on being photographed and profiled as serious pioneers of social media rather than hot babes who are only fit to ogle at. Granted it was Vanity Fair but it seems that unless a woman is all legs and boobs, they are not marketable. Unless they are an ugly duckling story like Susan Boyle. I know lots of other women in social media who are more powerful than they, but don’t fit the packaging requirements.
Nobody’s “fault” really, but caving into this just keep feeding the stereotype. But I suppose if they don’t, then they get no publicity. And that is really the very sad part.
Ah, this is such an ongoing issue – I didn’t see the image because I looked at it on my Blackberry first. All I read was the article, which painted these women basically as goofy teenagers. But the article is written by a woman – so what’s going on there? Are women cutting each other down?
I’ve mentioned this before, I think in the comments section of my Executive Image post, but sexism amongst women is perhaps just as bad as sexism between the genders. Women have very strong opinions about what being a 21st century woman means, and if you don’t live up to those expectations, well, woe be unto you.
It’s a sad state of affairs.
Yes Margie we have had this conversation for a couple of year here in the socialverse.
No great solutions or answers have come from this convo yet.
Women are asking and demanding to be included and even our own “sisters” in charge of the events give more credence to the men on their venue.
How do you change a mindset? For me it starts within. Since that is all I can have an effect upon-ME. ” I ask myself daily is this the most empowering position I can take?” then I ask “Will this get me the results I desire?” AHHH now we are cooking.
What do you propose?
Congrats Jill, see being on Women in Business Radio already having a positive effect (chuckle).
I agree – deciding where you are within has to be the first step. Some women still believe that women should stay in the background – the “stand by your man” mentality. There is nothing wrong with that, but I think sometimes, without even realizing it, these women poke holes in the dreams of women who want to go off on their own.
By the same token, women who want to go beyond the traditional often tread all over women of a more conservative bent. So, I think we need to be comfortable within, but I also think women need to figure this thing out amongst ourselves.
Might be tricky 🙂
Margie, You’ve done it again – in a good way! Opened a very interesting and complicated can of worms. On the one hand it is natural for humans to self-identify into groups; whether they are male / female, American / European / Filippino, by age Millenium / Y Gen / X Gen / Baby Boomers or a million other ways to dissect the human race.
In some cases such as WNBA, or even the Olympics, is it taking equality too far by saying men and women should compete against each other? Is that realistic? For many aspiring basket ball players (and I know a high school senior pretty well that will play in NCAA Div II), the WNBA offered hope to compete professionally.
On the other hand I am a woman in finance, with a degree in Math. I had a college professor who actually told me “Woman can’t do Math” and that was in the early 90’s! I too see a lack of women held up as the best of the best – full stop. Rather than the best of the women in x, y or z. And I know I’m late to this party, but I just read the story behind James Chartrand of Men with Pens. Pretty depressing given the year it happened!
I guess my short answer is “It’s complicated.”
That probably is the best answer. There’s not a single solution. However, we have to delineate what is prejudice versus what is grouping like people together. It’s a fine line, as you point out, but stepping into the prejudice zone can be extremely harmful and hurtful.
I’ll go out on a limb and say this doesn’t just apply to women.
In Canada, there’s a lot of debate over equal rights and affirmative action, and it leads to one thing; trouble. The assumption is that by creating “leveling agents” such as hiring quotas, non-uniform financial aid, and special consideration for “in-focus demographics,” we’re normalizing for the past.
It’s a false assumption, and it does two things: disenfranchises the non-focus demographics, and creates huge systematic gaps in which less than scrupulous people in these in-focus groups can abuse the system.
Women, minorities, those with varying social and physical challenges; one thing needs to be said about all of this adjustment focused action:
Equality must be applied equally.
Right now, it’s not.
Great point, Ian. The other side of the equality coin is that sometimes people over-compensate so that they end up ostracizing other people – whether other genders, other races, other religions, what have you. Prejudice of any kind cannot be tolerated. Equality of all kinds is what we should strive for.
Um, good luck to us on that, eh? 🙂
I think we’ll do fine, eventually. there’s a pendulum effect in this; discrimination, to overcompensation, to discrimination against other groups. Eventually, I only hope there will be “disregard” for groupings – insofar as unneeded special consideration goes.
We just need to figure out which parts are unneeded. 🙂
Margie,
Honored to be included in your list – and to have the opportunity to converse with you regularly via Twitter and our blogs on such meaty topics.
This is such an important topic and I think you and Carol did a beautiful job of pointing out how women can be each other’s best promoters, but we sometimes “come up short.”
Perhaps it’s time for a real dialogue between the women you mentioned – let’s actually find a way to get in a “virtual room” and start making things happen! 🙂
Lisa
Sounds great to me! And I give all credit to Carol as she really got the ball rolling – I just pushed it downhill, which is the easy part.
What I am thinking is that maybe it’s not just about women getting together. Maybe it’s about some of those powerful men letting us know what their perspective is.
I remember when I was in college, we got into a huge debate about the state of gender equality. One guy said, “Well, I mean, should I hold open a door for women now? I got yelled at by a woman for holding the door for her. She said she could do it herself.”
I said, “You know, I hold the door for anyone I see coming. I don’t care if they’re old or young, male or female. It’s just common sense.”
Maybe guys in this space assume that propping women up too much would be considered condescending or patronizing. It would be interesting to find out.
Interesting post Margie. I hear the point you make yet I have a relatively benign explanation for why this is the case, especially in social media which I still think of as emerging technology, yet to hit the mainstream where everyone’s mom might tweet and grandmoms show up on facebook. As is the case with any emerging technology, the early adopters are technologists and technology enthusiasts, and they’re also the de facto taste-makers. There just aren’t that many women in (and into) technology to influence popularity and swing the pendulum toward women. Many of the women I follow do not write about technology and as a passionate technophile, majority of the people whose tweets I follow tweet about technology… As a result, I follow a much larger proportion of men than women, and have heard of Guy Kawasaki and Chris Brogan, and only heard of 3 of the 12 women you list! I will now go look up the other 9 of course, but you see my point!
Hm. That could be a chicken and the egg thing though. I can think of a lot of women who are powerful in the realm of technology, but because they are often listed as “the most powerful women in technology,” we do not think of them as being of the same universe. Julia Roy, for example, is often considered one of the best minds in technology, and yet look at how she is presented in that article Rufus linked to.
Let me ask you this – if a woman was doing what Guy Kawasaki does with his Twitter account, how would the perception change? I would guess she would be called things like a “chatty cathy” or “such a girl.”
What do you think?
Margie,
I am glad you are continuing the conversation. Funny…a minute ago I saw this come across Twitter: RT @ForbesWoman: RT @caroljsroth At the Business Table, Where are the Ladies? http://is.gd/pIrFAb
Forbes Woman? Yes, indeed, http://www.forbes.com/forbeswoman/ If you thought sports teams, Ted for Woman or BlogHer were questionable…what have we here?
Again…say hello to Lilly Ledbetter. See my thoughts here: http://blog.webconsuls.com/2009/01/we-should-all-thank-lilly-ledbetter.html
We will talk soon.
Judy
Forbes Woman. Huh. Very interesting.
Very interesting indeed.
Thanks for that and the link to your post. Both are much appreciated!
If you are open to having a guest blog poster please reply and let me know. I will provide you with unique content for your blog, thanks.
Chicks. Whatever. ; )
Men have one ridiculously huge competitive advantage in taking the stage: we are absolutely comfortable talking out of our asses and not apologizing for it. There are HUGE studies that show this in the career world. Switch it around to the stage and you see what happens.
I’m willing to stand up in front of a crowd and not be the expert, and make crap up.
Women, smartly so, (and this is stats that I’m too lazy to go find to prove it to you, so you can agree or disagree) don’t. They tend to stick to what they know.
That’s the secret sauce. Plenty of brilliant women out there know tons more than me. Plenty. hell… let’s be clear. MOST people know tons more than me. I’m just funny and people like hugging me because I’m squishy.
That’s all I have for you. : )
That’s pretty interesting. I think women have kind of been cornered into having to be perfect and a certain way, whereas if guys mess up or joke around, they can play it off as being, well, one of the guys.
I’m reading a book right now all about the intersection of women and marketing dating back to the late 19th century, and it’s fascinating. If I can ever get back to typing regularly, I’m looking forward to being able to share it with everyone. I think your insight makes a lot of sense in the context of what I’m reading.
Thanks, Chris!