What I think about Occupy Wall Street
Because the conversation that took place on Nicole’s post about Occupy Wall Street necessitated me moderating more than commenting, I don’t feel like I really had a chance to verbalize my own feelings about what’s going on there. Nic Wirtz mentioned that it would be great to have a retort of sorts from someone within the movement. Well, I’m not in the movement, but I think there is a lot of great stuff going on tied to this wave of action. What do I like about Occupy Wall Street? Let me offer some tidbits of thought and then we can talk about them further if you like.
People are actually doing something
One of my biggest frustrations about American society during my lifetime is that a lot of people like to complain but when the time comes for action, they are not so keen to participate. I know this because I fall squarely into this category. There’s all kinds of stuff I complain about, but I never actually take the complicated step of doing something. It’s like one of my favorite scenes from Life of Brian (Monty Python). The time has come for action, so the team sits down and starts carefully planning what they will do while time is a’wasting. While the motivations of some folks are suspect – PBS Newshour talked to a Harvard Business Review economist who was clearly there for the media attention – a lot of the people have genuine beefs with the way things are going here. Instead of just immersing themselves in World of Warcraft or reality television, they’ve left home, are risking arrest, and if nothing else, they’re getting people to talk about some of these issues.
The college loan situation
For the last 10 years, I have lamented the way college loans work in this country. If you are able to fill out the immense piles of paperwork you need to fill out to get a loan for your education, you find yourself in a very complex predicament by the time you are ready to graduate. To wit, after you leave school, you have a 6-month grace period before your first payment is due, or at least that’s how it was for me. My last year of school I made under $10,000 for the year. The thought of having to make $300/month payments scared the crap out of me, so I knew I needed to find a job right away.
Have you ever tried to find a well-paying dream job in six months when you’re right out of school? It was tough back in 2004. Now, it’s even tougher.
This framework causes a few things. It causes a sense of desperation, so a lot of people settle for jobs just so they can get money rather than holding out for that job that might be a year to 18 months out of reach. Young people are having to live with their parents longer because they certainly can’t afford rent, utilities, AND their loans with no income coming in. And of course, there is the old catch-22 problem. How can you prove you are reliable and credible and a good worker if no one will take a chance on you?
I did not do anything to protest this framework other than write about it here and there and feel pretty angry for a few years. These young people are getting the issue out there.
Money is messed up in the US
OK, let’s face it. The gap between the “haves” and the “have-nots” is not decreasing. The middle class is disappearing, and for the most part, they are not being added to the “haves” crowd. Where I live, which is by no means a crappy area, there are pan-handlers at every corner and in front of every store. There are houses that have been up for sale for months and months because no one can afford them. That’s just in my little corner of the world.
Is it right to say that rich people are evil? No. There are a lot of philanthropists out there. Warren Buffet is begging the government to tax him more. But have a lot of people, tons of people, gotten rich off the backs of people who were already down? Heck yeah. This is hardly a new issue. People have pointed out these kinds of discrepancies for ages. How do you think the serfs felt in Medieval England? I mean, talk about a rotten deal. But in a country that is all about equality, it is getting to seem a little…hypocritical at best.
But there’s a gorilla in the room
To me, the Occupy Wall Street movement is missing the mark by a few states. Ultimately, to me, the biggest problems in our country lie with our politicians. I am not saying that either party is more or less to blame. While I have loved talking about politics for my whole life, the subject now makes me throw up a little, because our leaders, regardless of party, have lost track of what they’re supposed to be doing. They are after sound bytes now. They have created a country that is increasingly poor and increasingly polarized. Those are two Ps that are highly damaging to us as a nation.
So those are some of my thoughts about this movement. I’m watching it closely, but for now, I’m just happy that these painful issues are getting some attention. It’s about time.
Image by Asif Akbar. http://www.sxc.hu/profile/asifthebes
82 comments
Leave a Reply
You must be logged in to post a comment.
margieclayman Great post! The only thing is that
Hi Margie,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts about Occupy Wall Street. I missed Nicole’s post and the ensuing kerfuffle as I was posting my own thoughts about OWS on Tuesday (shameless plug followed by an even more shameless inclusion of hyperlink).
http://alifewelllivedconcludeswithasmile.blogspot.com/2011/10/theyre-just-not-that-into-me-or-you.html
To speak to your thoughts, I think OWS addresses one directly: OWS puts all the bought and paid for politicians on notice. The voting public is no longer on autopilot. The voting public is not only watching, but taking to the streets. If people are taking to the streets,it’s a short walk to the ballot box.
I think OWS also provides an out let for the free floating anger running through the populace. Congress currently has an 11% approval rating (that’s an 89% disapproval rating). Mubarak had a higher approval rating the day before he “resigned”. You can also see this anger in a “Throw them all out” mentality and in other political expressions. This frustration is going to boil over. OWS is a peaceful outlet to express this free floating frustration. Hopefully, it will remain peaceful. Hopefully the police will put away their pepper spary and establish a dialogue with leadership.
Yes, I have distinctly partisan feelings about OWS, but I think I pretty much played it down the middle. Thanks for giving 3 days to OWS.
@barryrsilver Mubarek WAS more popular! I hadn’t remembered that. Thanks! 🙂
@barryrsilver Mubarak WAS more popular. So glad you reminded me! 😀
@barryrsilver Thanks, Barry. I’ll be sure to check out your post. And that’s a fascinating note about Mubarak. Yikes!!
@margieclayman And the “haves” provide the money for the powerful haves (politicians) to back their purposes. This is more well-disguised oligarchy, right? Rick Perry (like the other Texas boys), have received inordinate sums from few people who (it’s implied) will benefit from his agenda. I read a report that Rick Perry raised $51 from 204 donors. I imagine these guys/gals have more than a little “vested interest” in what he does, and not merely what he proposes ( http://info.tpj.org/reports/pdf/perryprimer.fin.pdf4 ).
But I only get headaches when I think about politics and economy, so I don’t dwell there too long. I have noticed how the NARRATIVES of “we are the 99 percent” (as exhibited by their tumblr pages), may have more resonance with the general public than pithy slogans or “new leaders.” When we hear the stories of 100s of individuals that are suffering–across socio-economic lines—the leaders with grit and heart are more likely to listen. Statistics are starting to look like “BS in a ball gown,” and “democratic power” is shifting to people who are (A) demonstrating, or (B) telling their story without “whining.”
In short leveraging stories might be more powerful than disseminating information. Even if #OWS subsides (which I do not think it will), the people sharing their stories online will not.
@Mark_Robertson Which is why it was so important to me to get this conversation rolling. While folks were seeing blog posts in other arenas of the online world, I was not seeing any in my little niche, nor were any showing up in a pretty thorough Google search. Even if we disagree, there should be some sort of online platform to talk about it. I’m delighted that we are talking about it here.
@margieclayman I know this kind of mindful conversation is sharpening my understanding. @Almost60Really ‘s nods to people like Alan Grayson have helped me tie my “pathos” & “ethos” to “logos.” In other words, I have guts and a strong philosophy, but the information is more difficult to understand (NYTimes quickly re-phrasing its articles?!).
Now, more than ever in my life, has it been more critical to read a multiplicity of viewpoints, and set them under the interrogation lamp of rigorous logic. An uninformed or “us v. them” revolution is not powerful enough. I wonder what someone like Noam Chomsky would say. He’s a guiding light for me when it comes to the importance intellectualism in the public sphere.
@Mark_Robertson@margieclayman Always check for “alternative news.”
@Almost60Really@Mark_Robertson@margieclayman
I want to post a link here but links seem to be blocked. Is that the case Margie?
@Mark_Robertson@margieclayman Noam Chomsky is a hero to me. 😀 For how long? 30 years??? 😀
@Almost60Really@Mark_Robertson@margieclayman See http://www.alternet.org and http://www.thehill.com and http://www.commondreams.org
@Mark_Robertson@margieclayman@Almost60Really Funny, there is such an anti-intellectual movement anywhere. They want people to be satsfied with cable TV & KFC. They don’t want smart people in the public sphere. Obama was a set up. Not that that should surprise anyone. After all, the people who give to the Republicans are the same who give to the Democrats. And Obama wasn’t an independent candidate. A lot of people were let down and probably won;t want to vote for him again even if a vote for him is a vote against Bachmann (or whatever puppet they put in the running)
@Almost60Really@Mark_Robertson@margieclayman Regardless of your source only the facts that appear in multiple (and supposedly opposite) channels will be true. That means the “Why” is usually always conjecture.
@Mark_Robertson@margieclayman Gotta love Tumblr for this movement. It’s a perfect wagon. Pictures and pith. I’ve never spent so much time there as I have the past few weeks.
@Mark_Robertson@margieclayman Oligarchy. Plutocracy. The masses being herded by the 1%. Sorry. I know that’s not a phrase some of you like. But to be perfectly honest, it’s the damn truth. What shocks me is all the people who are barely getting by—who are defending it.
‘Tis a puzzlement. An enigma. A weird confluence of mind over matter!
@Mark_Robertson@margieclayman Is it too much to hope for us to be the 100%. I mean, in reality, there really is no “them”. We’re all in this together. Like it or not.
margieclayman Great post Margie. I think they’re in the right place myself. As one “honest” trader said “Governments don’t rule the world, Goldman Sachs rules the world” (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpg76VjTa58) Really, the problem is that our hard-earned cash goes toward corporate profits which pays for lobbyists & special interests groups to pressure our government, through various means, including campaign donations (and campaigns are not cheap) & political party donations to do what is best for them instead of what is best for us with the rest of our heard earned cash (ie taxes). So the issue is that *WE* need to make better choices as consumers and voters but *WE* also need better choices. So it actually starts with us & with telling corporations that enough is enough. In addition to this, we need to stop allowing pieces of paper (more bits of data than paper now) to be wroth so much. The financial markets are the world’s biggest casinos but unlike gaming, which is badly regarded, “investing” is highly respected and it shouldn’t be. These are all inventions of Wall Street et al which mean people who have money make more money from nothing and the house always wins (odds are stacked for the house as traders always get a commission from clients). We need this sort of economy to stop working. It nees to come crashing down. We need better ways to exchange value and better defintions of success, value, wealth and worth. OWS is just the tip of the iceberg and this economy is the Titanic.
@amoyalmargieclayman I’ve been reading M Lewis’ study of “the new third world” (he speaks of Greece, Ireland, Iceland, and…gulp…California). He said that Germany is also going to have to make a decision to extricate itself from the Euro(zone), or bailout these countries. Lewis says that they have behave “ethically and responsibly” (which good traders do, right? Borrow money they can pay back?).
Sometimes it takes catastrophe to experience some small resurrection. Even the Gothic halls of investment firms on Wall St. cannot stand deep ethical deformity (greed, self-interest, deceit–Goldman-Sachs financed Greece’s immense Euro(zone) lie).
Main St is dead, long live Main St. They are using the wastelands of Detroit to cultivate alfalfa. This is going to be our salvation.
@Mark_Robertson@amoyalmargieclayman I am so longing to learn and understand the Euro situation. I know it’s a disaster. But I can’t seem to find info. What can you direct me to, Mark?
@Almost60Really@Mark_Robertsonmargieclayman Here’s an article. Staving off a eurozone crisis could cost 3 TRILLION EUROS! http://news.scotsman.com/news/Staving-off-a-eurozone-crisis.6850536.jp
@Mark_Robertson@amoyalmargieclayman Long live Main Street. (And I love to chew alfalfa.)
@Mark_Robertsonmargieclayman I can’t wait for this economy to come crashing down. One of the reasons I love social media is because it’s enabling the people and small businesses to leve the playing field. I especially like foursquare et al for the community identification & strengthening aspects. Trouble is, we don’t own or control the infrastructure that supports the Internet or any telecoms really…
@Mark_Robertsonmargieclayman My friends are pointing at Asia, mostly SE Asia, as there is little/no credit there. The only downside is that there is not much of a safety net either. That being said they have pretty good communities. We need more communities.
@amoyalmargieclayman Goldman Sachs indeed rules the world. They come up with all kinds of financial ‘product’ that laws haven’t even caught up to yet. Slicing and dicing mortgages? CDOs? etc etc. The foreclosure crisis is exacerbated by this slicing, because nobody knows who the heck owns their mortgage and the missing paperwork and robosigning just created a vortex of hell for homeowners trying to keep their homes.
@MillerFinch@amoyalmargieclayman They’re criminal. And guess what? A tiny bit of what I have left is WITH them. Tiny, luckily. And I’m so clueless—I don’t even know how to get out! Sheeeesh. Idiot? Yeah, I’d say so.
@Almost60Really@amoyalmargieclayman If you have a mortgage that Goldman Sachs held and serviced thru Litton Loan, it is now going to be serviced thru Ocwen. GS sold Litton and I believe the mortgages being serviced too.
@Almost60Really@MillerFinchmargieclayman Move your mortgage to a credit union? Find one here: http://www.ncua.gov/dataservices/findcu.aspx
@MillerFinch@amoyal Yep. And yet there is talk that we should loosen the reigns on companies like that. I don’t understand how anyone can suggest that with a straight face at this point.
@margieclayman@amoyal Yes, Margie, that totally gags me! All this deregulation has created this insanity, yet they want more! There is no end to corporate wants since they hold the money. They are aiming to gut the EPA now, along with a multitude of other regulations, all in the bull**t name of ‘creating jobs”. They already hold trillions and CAN create jobs NOW if they wanted to. No, this is about getting their way with the politicians and the politicians just bend over since they are greedy too and want the cash. We will be deregulated into anarchy if this keeps up.
@MillerFinch@margieclayman@amoyal They figure if they hold firm, invest nothing, and wait for Obama to be out, they will rule the playground. I’m hoping Occupy will nix that deal somehow.
And yes. I DO expect some blood to be lost. It sickens me. But there are always a few who will do it, for the greater good. I’m scared. But I’m determined.
And the rough stuff with the police? It’s just not going over well. That’s a good thing.
Great platform, Margie. 🙂
@MillerFinch@margieclayman@amoyal Liz, I suspect that anarchy is a tad bit what OWS will become. Not through their own wishes. But because of the recalcitrant and obdurate refusal by the (Tea Party) Republicans to compromise.
John Adams said it brilliantly. Compromise. Compromise. Compromise.
@margieclayman@MillerFinch People who really can’t let go of the old ways of doing things? They’re scared. Of course they don;t want to make any drastic changes. They don’t get that that’s all that will save them!
@MillerFinch@margieclayman I don’t know. Do we really want to empower them to control any more livelihoods??
@amoyal yeah, it’s pretty ballsy of politicians to be raising $17 million for a campaign while others are going through all of these problems. I wish I could get rich just so I could show people what philanthropy is. I think it’s a dying art.
@margieclayman Studies have shown that rich people are less generous than rich people. Also philanthropy is often a case of a pound of cure vs an ounce of prevention. ie Who cares who gets hurt? We’ll fix it later…..
@amoyalmargieclayman “OWS is just the tip of the iceberg and this economy is the Titanic.” THAT, my friend, bears REPEATING! 😀
@Almost60Reallymargieclayman Haha I just tweeted it 😉
Oh, Margie, I salute you! Hopefully my comment is measured and thought through. But since I’m me, I can’t guarantee it. 😉 Actually, I could think it through for days, correcting and fixing, but—then I’d never publish it!
Occupy has not forgotten the politicians, both Republican and Democrat, nor the folks in the White House either. As I type there are things being written, spread amongst us, being edited, being discussed, being perfected. We know that Congress is corrupt. I’d say 100%, but then I see my beloved Bernie Sanders come on and fight the good fight once again for plain ole regular Americans. Just as he did in December when he stood in front of Congress for six full hours. (He was glorious!)
Then I look in a different direction and there’s Alan Grayson, who was voted out, but will soon be voted back into the House. And he tells great truths. Check out what he said on Bill Maher’s show. It summed up the EXACT goals of Occupy in less than 40 seconds. 37 second, actually.
And there are so many others. Dylan Ratigan is hosting a “get money out” of politics. http://getmoneyout.com , I believe. I signed. And will attend anything they ask me to. Higher-ups in government are taking part and directing operations. They will make a mark. (Dang, I miss the ability to use mark-up!)
Please know and believe that this is not a clueless, senseless movement without focus (as media would have you believe). There are movers and shakers (I’m not one; I’m just a noisy old gal) involved who are drawing up plans of all kinds. Those in control also control most of the media, and I truly mean than. Did you see how the New York Times changed its positive wording on the day when the police went a bit nuts, within an hour of first publishing? I’ll try to find it for you if you’re interested. It went from positive spin to negative in the blink of an eye. I wonder who paid for that change?
know that I sound radical. I guess I am. But there’s a foul wind blowing that smells of corruption and money, and it’s not coming from the people!
To be a bit more eloquent, in the words of Bob Dylan, “The times, they are a changin’,” for sure. Protest is once again alive and well, and it will grow, and become legitimate.
And I am so glad. We NEED this.
And yep. I’ll be down there, sitting in my lawn chair, and cheering. 🙂 Because something’s gotta give, and I’m placing my money on We The People.
No idea why some letters are missing from beginnings of paragraphs. Ah well. No matter! 🙂
@Almost60Really Beautifully stated, Paula. I guess I would just expect more people to be a little confused as to why disaster relief is less important than getting the big sound byte. That’s enough to make me want to start marching.
@margieclayman@Almost60Really Do it Margie! March! Be heard!
@margieclayman Disaster relief always has been and still should be a function of a government by the people. None of us would deny flood victims a helping hand.
But the Republicans do. And have. And the victims are still helpless, waiting, and desperate. Nobody is prepared for a flood that was never supposed to happen.
@Almost60Really@margieclayman Yes but how long can they wait before they help themselves… I mean in the Middle East some live in what they call “refugee camps” but what others would called towns if not cities….
This is a great post, Margie. I was reading through some of the Twitter stream the other day for Occupy Philly and was finding myself so frustrated with the people on there who were saying things like “Hey, hippies. Just go work at Starbucks or Wal*Mart.” If I had a dollar for every time someone told me to “Just go work at Wal Mart,” I’d be rich (and we don’t even have a Starbucks in my town). The problem I find (and I’m sure I’m not alone) is that I worked hard to get my Master’s degree to make myself a better job candidate, having no clue that just as I finished, the economy would topple. Both of my parents work in retail and told me flat out that when they look at applications and the candidate for cashier jobs, etc. is way overqualified, they don’t even bother. So when I apply at these “Just go work at Wal Mart” jobs, one of two things could happen: My application could be totally ignored because it’s obvious that I want a CAREER and not “just a job.” OR… they could hire me and I would still be underemployed and struggling (which says nothing of the mass amounts of people who are trying to get those same jobs just to get by). Maybe not quite as much, but underemployment is a huge problem that isn’t talked about quite as much. I’m making a little bit of money now, but not enough to live on my own (I’ve been living with my parents again for just over 3 years now) because of what you’ve said here — and I really like the point you made about student loans. That’s my biggest problem. About half of my monthly income goes to student loans. I finished undergrad in 2005, and based on what I can pay, one of my THREE monthly loan payments won’t be finished until 2027. That’s so depressing. Even my smallest loan isn’t slated to be paid back in full until 2018. It’s a terrible problem because young people can’t ever get on their feet. We’re set up for failure from the start the way it is now.Over the past decade I’ve become increasingly more frustrated with and wary of the government. I used to take such an interest in it, but now I just feel jaded. I feel like they aren’t looking out for me and people in my situation, and quite frankly, I can name fewer than five politicians who I think are genuinely decent people. It’s a sad state of affairs, but I’m glad that there are people who are willing to take to the streets and be a part of this movement. If I had the means to get to them, I’d love to join in.
@writingrenee We freed the slaves, then a few rich people reinstated slavery through diabolical whispers to college applicants, wrapped in envelopes with credit cards.
@writingrenee I feel your pain, Renee. When I was in grad school, I was pinned down because I was a grad assistant and the university sort of frowned on you having a second job. Which, by the way, seemed entirely unfair at the time. So, I went into my post-school life with negative amounts of money. Had my family not had this company, which as I have said so many times worked out well but was nothing I had planned, I don’t know what I would have done. At one point early in my job search I got a call that I could work part-time at a library shelving books, and I was sorely tempted. It is a really sad state of affairs, and we are lucky enough to benefit from great educations. Imagine those who can’t even get to that step. Craziness.
@writingrenee Oh, kiddo. I so hear you. My loans for teaching (incurred when I was 35-38—not a kid) hung around being paid in tiny bits for almost 20 years because I never earned enough money at school to pay them…so I’d send $12…$23…you get the picture. The only reason they’re paid off is that the Pseudo-Husband worried that they’d ruin our house-buying ability (even though we were buying my own house, partially already paid for!) I’d still owe on them until the day I die if he had not simply, behind my back, paid them off.
And I am SO well aware of how lucky I am for that. Before that, they called me, they wrote me, they never left me alone. The dunning alone is a nightmare. I would say, “I’m teaching in a district in poverty. We have no BOOKS. I have to buy books, I have to buy toilet paper, I have to buy paper towels for the kids to carry to the bathroom. I buy their freakin’ lunches! I’m paying for things the government should be buying, but isn’t. Can’t you cut me a break?”
I’ve had grown women cry while talking to me, yet they still had to call me the next time my name came up. Some of us became friends. We’re STILL in touch, thanks to Facebook! (oooh, never thought I’d say that!) 😉
Oh, I hear you, writingrenee.
We were compelled (forced) to teach hygiene, yet then we were supposed to send them into a restroom without toilet paper, soap or towels. Can somebody explain that to me? Because even after all these years, I still don’t GET it. ??
I admit that I went overboard on supplying my kids with “things.” I have no children, though, much to my sadness and dismay. These WERE my kids. How could I not provide the books and math manipulatives and sometimes lunches that the school district did not? Could you?
I spent $10,000 a year, and still these kids didn’t get even a fraction of what the kids in districts with more money had. Is that right? Is it? Is it?
I’m sorry. I just feel so strongly. And now teachers are getting their benefits and salaries cut, and for many, their jobs. The world is upside down. What on earth makes this OK?
margieclayman Thank you for expressing so clearly the issues of OWS. I do think that apathy has been an issue for us as Americans for some time. I have been following and reading @umairh for some time and reading about Metamovements (highly recommend following and reading his work) – while issues around the globe seem disconnected Arab Spring, riots in London, two underlying issue are the 2 ‘Ps’ that you mentioned poor and increasing polarization.
Margie I know that you love history and I find this Abraham Lincoln quote so fitting for our times:
“I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. Corporations have been enthroned, an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money-power of the country will endeavor to prolong it’s reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until the wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed.”
@Tribe2point0margieclayman@umairh thanks for the nod to @umairh and the beautiful quote from Lincoln. He saw the 13th amendment pass in 1865. He did not see (though perhaps foresaw), the way wealth was agree gating on a district that would create a new kind of debtor/creditor slave-like mechanism in America. Lincoln’s foresight is unnerving and beautiful. What is the gist of the “metamovement” writing?
@Mark_Robertson@Tribe2point0 Lincoln was a big fan of the concept that if you work hard, you should get the benefits of that work. He also very strongly believed that everyone should have the chance to do what he did, which was to become a self-made man. Well, everyone except Native Americans. 🙂 His initial argument against slavery was not the cruelty or racism of it but rather the injustice that people were working all their lives and getting none of the benefit.
@margieclayman@Tribe2point0 I was looking through a new book that said Lincoln was an abolitionist, but also a savvy politician. He understood that the slavery was an industry that was hinged to the central operative stability of the US. His brilliance was in navigating stormy political waters while maintaining a transcendent vision for America.
@margieclayman@Mark_Robertson@Tribe2point0 Lincoln, Jefferson and Adams were all prescient. Great men.
@Mark_Robertson@margieclayman Love digging into history like this. Would love to read that book:)
@Mark_Robertson Metamovement – people feeling the lack of opportunity to control their own destiny. Strangled by corruption and greed that has infiltrated the government. Here is a link to @umairh blog http://blogs.hbr.org/haque/2011/10/the_protests_and_the_metamovem.html
@Mark_Robertson oops here is my 2 cents understanding of the Metamovement – reaction to people feeling that they no longer have control of their own destiny. Corruption and greed have become so intertwined between governments and corporations that there is no longer a voice for the common people.
@Tribe2point0@Mark_Robertson There is no control 😉 That’s an illusion. Just take hold of your choices….
@amoyal@Mark_Robertson Completely Zen and true
@Tribe2point0 That Abe. How can you not love him? Words for the ages. Thanks for that, Kelly!
And yes, the world is getting smaller while the numbers of people get bigger. I’m not sure how that will all pan out, but it seems to be a troubling ratio.
I worry about the “we’uns” versus the “they’uns” attitude that seems to be be brewing everywhere. I’d probably be considered “rich” by a lot of people, but I worry about money constantly. I know how much it costs to live these days, when an accident or illness can run up bills of tens of thousands of dollars in a matter of days. For everyone, there’s a very thin line between being comfortable and being desperate.
@sigonee That’s a HUGE point. Someone on Facebook posted a picture of a woman holding up a sign at one of the protests. The sign noted that currently, the woman is as happy as can be. She owns her own business, her family is great, and she lives comfortably. However, the family does not have insurance, so the sign reads that the emergency room is their insurance policy. One unforeseen and tragic problem and the family’s welfare will immediately be threatened. That is a significant shadow that looms over many, many people.
@sigonee I thought about this initially too: the rhetoric of the99percent is a little weak. “They” and “them” becomes as hazy as Lord Voldemort. We need people born before 1980 (this barley discludes me), to recognize the polarizing affect of poor pronoun choice.
@Mark_Robertson@sigonee Mark, I am horrified to learn of your friend’s brother’s needless death. That is a life-shaping moment for sure. You’re as cool as I remember. :/ ‘Twas interesting to read your semi-manifesto. I guess FireWyre (??) isn’t that bad after all. 🙂
@Mark_Robertson@sigonee Hey! I was born in 1980, TYVM 😛
@sigonee But Sigonee, it’s not “us” versus “them.” Because “them” ain’t human beings. They’re corporations who’ve been designated by our Supreme Court (and I won’t even GO there!) to be “individuals.” “A person.” A corporation can now act as a person. Citizens United vs the Election Board. It’s insanity. Yet it’s happened.
It’s unconscionable, unthinkable, it’s beyond reason. Yet that’s how it is. They, as human beings, can give and give and give unthinkable sums of money to any politician in America. And they do. From the top to the bottom. They dominate every senate race, House race, mayoral race, governor race, and many levels down from that. It’s frightening.
And if you read the story of how they came to this vote, our illustrious and beloved Supreme Court—it becomes clear that even our most powerful judicial branch in the country is corrupt and the Presidents who appointed them knew full well that this was the desired outcome. There are tons of books about it.
Check out some of Justice Clarence Thomas’s connections, and then tell us that he is a fair and unconnected justice. There are more, but I’ve gone on too long. It’s sickening. And what can we do about it? I am sorry to say that there is no remedy I can find. They’re appointed for life.
You may not remember Anita Hill and her grievance against him, but I do. And it’s been ascertained that yes, he did commit harrassment. But hey. He was a United States Supreme Court Justice by then. Nothing can touch him.
Not even his wife’s affiliation and job with some of the corporations he’s been asked to investigate. His family earns MONEY from them. Yet he’s supposed to be non-judgmental?
Oh, rats! I guess I DID go there. Sorry.
@sigonee We’re all in this together really But things can turn on a dime for anyone whether they are aware of it or not….
@margieclayman@Almost60Really@MillerFinch et al. There is so much to say and so little time. I want to share with you a comment I posted to another blog over labor day. Her take was that Labor Day had to be more inspirational…OK…here is what I said:
“In one month I will turn 62 and for most of my adult life I have yearned to be a laborer. That is, to be part of something bigger, to participate in making something tangible. It would be an honor.
What drives us sometimes is just the desire to eat. My father joined the US Navy as soon as he turned 18. It was 1936; his driving force was a “passion” to be able to eat. The miracle was he found his passion and loved the Navy.
Today I worry about “labor”, the body of people. I worry about families being forced to live in motels, so much so that school busses now stop at motels to pick up children. I worry about those that will die from ordinary everyday ailments like an infected tooth, because they have no health insurance. I worry about what brings someone like Trey to the end, were there no avenues of help?
A very long time ago (I believe during the Civil War) Sherman said: “There will soon come an armed contest between capital and labor. They will oppose each other, not with words and arguments, but with shot and shell, gun-powder and cannon. The better classes are tired of the insane howling of the lower strata and they mean to stop them.”
Perhaps, if I hadn’t given this quote a time reference…one might think we were talking of today.”
I am hopeful that some of you what Chris Hayes on MSNBC. He has an very early morning show on Sat and Sun. He is covering OWS in great detail.
Tomorrow, I will come back and post a link to his Sunday show. Great information, with a lot of history. Read the history from 1929 forward…you will be amazed at what you learn about today!.
Judy
@JudyHelfand@margieclayman@MillerFinch Chris Hayes is fantastic and great. I’m thinking now that I should go get my quotes from Jefferson and Adams and Lincoln. Should I?
@JudyHelfand@margieclayman@Almost60Really@MillerFinch I love this perspective Judy. I hope you continue to add value to the conversation. You sound quite a bit like Simone Weil. She only lived 33 years, but it was quite alifetime. She fought for labor by working in labor–even though she had every “right” to the bourgeois-life; she finished before Simone de Bouvoir in her Lycee, and she worked in a factory. She wrote chaotically, and extremely austerely, but her abbreviated life and body of work is so much more valuable than the pampered, blasé, beautifully depressed Bouvoir. She may have been crazy, but she understood that the role of the intellectual was not sidelining: it was fighting for labor.
Life has always been its best when people work together “for something tangible.” Unfortunately it usually takes a common enemy. I’m personally going to live making (micro)changes on Main Street when I leave my educational exile in Brazil.
@Mark_Robertson@JudyHelfand@margieclayman@MillerFinch Crazy isn’t all bad. I should know. 🙂
@Almost60Really @Mark_Robertson @margieclayman @MillerFinch here is the link to the Chris Hayes show: Watching a msnbc.com video: More Up w/ Chris Hayes, Oct. 9 – http://on.msnbc.com/qayHuo via @msnbc very interesting historical information.
@Almost60Really @Mark_Robertson @margieclayman @MillerFinch Watching a msnbc.com video: More Up w/ Chris Hayes, Oct. 9 – http://on.msnbc.com/qayHuo via @msnbc Interesting discussion
Some people are taking action. Some people are DOING something. Maybe you could, too. 🙂
There IS no gorilla in the room. We KNOW what we’re up against. And it’s frightening, it’s horrendous, and it seems insurmountable.
But I think we can conquer it. Solidarity. Hate to sound that ole ringer bell, but truly. Solidarity. Beginning with supporting Occupy Wall Street.
Can I directly address the student loan issue? What an incredible conundrum it is for SO many people! As an older, adult student, after losing my high paying job in 2001 due to the tech burst, I decided to get my college degree. I had not gone to college, w/the exception of two semesters right after high school that were a disaster. So, I started undergrad in 2003, taking on loans because I did not have the cash to pay for school. I went to a state school, UIC, because it was less expensive but still an excellent school. My EXPECTATION was, that having earned an excellent living without my degree, that I would be able to land a job and pay back my loans without any problems.
I graduated from school in 2006; I have not earned more than $30k annually since. Part of this is the economy, part of it is the new industry I chose to make myself a part of, becoming an Archivist. My financial situation is dismal; though I have a very nice home there is no equity in it and even if I wanted to sell it, there aren’t any buyers. I have not, as of yet, paid A SINGLE PENNY on my student loans. That’s right; they have either been in deferral, or as of now, forbearance since 2006, because I simply can’t pay them. I do not own a credit card & have no credit card debt, that is not the issue. I simply do not make enough to pay for my mortgage, living expenses and my loans. What’s worse, in June next year, I will be out of options.
But, I will begin paying my student loans back. I will be past 65 and still paying off my student loans. Which means, I will have ZERO for retirement. Who’s going to care for me when I can’t? I have no children, no family. The irony is that I will NEED the support of the government, the use of the money taken from the 40+ years of paychecks I will have earned.
It’s a rhetorical question at this point. After realizing this somewhat bleak future is mine, I decided that I can’t live in fear that there won’t be any money for me. I will work while I can. Most importantly, I will fulfill the obligation that I took on and PAY my loans. Just as I will never ‘walk-away’ from the mortgages I have taken on fully understanding the terms. Our penchant for disavowing our obligations is dragging us all down. So is our lack of banking & financial industry regulations. (Yes, I said it). I worked in the financial industry from 1991 to 1999; deregulation released the hounds of greed that have destroyed not just the U.S. economy, but the global economy. The challenge is, as we seek to contract our government, MORE government regulation simply isn’t logical.
I wish the Occupy Wall Street participants good luck. I completely agree with you that it’s great to see people get off their couches and DO something. How about voting? Maybe if 62% started voting, instead of only 28%, we might effect some change. And maybe I’ll win the lottery…
I feel for you, kid. I know the horror of never-ending payments. Isn’t it absurd? Isn’t it ironic?
I so feel for you. What a nightmare, and it will never end. God help you, and us. :/
Watching a msnbc.com video: More Up w/ Chris Hayes, Oct. 9 – http://on.msnbc.com/qayHuo via @msnbc I hope you can see the link. Very interesting.
Not angry enough 🙂
For years I have lived in and been subject to timezone media mocking my European roots and their socialist health system.
As Margie points out, we’ve moved onto education now, all this student loan manages to do is indebt graduates for far too long.
I’m not adverse to a health or educational system that makes a profit, I am adverse to institutions that are sitting on billions charging the earth to go there. I am adverse to bankrupting people just to pay for drugs or treatment, I am adverse to graduates being in so much debt they’ll take any job not one they’ll actually have any passion to do.
In the 90s we were bombarded, at least in the UK by the idea of “transferable skills” now I did a degree that I think is highly transferable – journalism and yet because the goal was to get 50% of kids into university, now firms can afford to be overly picky about just the right qualification. Conclusion, transferable skills is not a con but overproducing graduates means it doesn’t work in practice.
So what is the answer? I’m tempted to say don’t bother going to college, employers will be crying out for educated new entrants even more. Thing is that is just as likely to lead to outsourcing jobs as anything, making a bad situation worse.
There just seems a huge disconnect between firms that claim there’s no graduates with the skillset and education they require and students struggling to find jobs, leading to 25-35% youth unemployment.
I enjoyed the post, I am ecstatic that people have learned they can civilly protest again but think Margie ended by putting the cart before the horse. Money is the driving force of our economy, money corrupt, political systems worldwide are corrupt, politicians are corrupt. Removing the money and Wall Street is symbolic of where the big money is and a powerful symbol to other protesters, would go a long way to cleaning up the political system.
If money has corrupted politicians, go to the root cause, not the politicians that have forgotten how to represent the average person.
@NicWirtz I am honored to refer you to the Amherst College financial aid model. https://www.amherst.edu/admission/financial_aid You will be shocked at their approach. This is my husband’s alma mater. Amherst is not the only college that is rethinking the total affect of college debt. Amherst realized that potential debt was controlling their applicant pool and their eventual students’ course of study.
@NicWirtz Here is a link to a very clear picture of Amherst’s approach. https://www.amherst.edu/media/view/344479
@NicWirtz I don;t think everyone needs to go to college…. I only did it to shut my parents up 🙂