The Myth of Give To Get
When I first started doing this whole Social Media thang, as it were, I had a lot of ideas in my head. I wouldn’t say that was particularly my fault. My brain was, well, I don’t want to say it was manure mixed with soil, but the grounds were very fertile for seeds of ideas and concepts. There were many many farmers who came up to me and said, “Hey, look, it is a new person, and her brain is ready to be planted with rows and rows of my ideas! I meant, best practices! Yes!” And so, ideas were planted in my head, and they started to bloom and grow. In a twist that only the makers of Inception could have conceptualized and made into a B-grade movie, these ideas became so engrained in how I did things that I thought they were MY ideas. I’m waiting for you still, Leo DiCaprio.
Now, I speak as if I am a grizzled veteran, but in fact I have only been at this game for about a year.5. Yes, in baby years I’m 18 months old, just teething and learning that I can stuff either my entire foot or my entire fist into my mouth. These are very exciting times.
Ehem.
Much like an infant at 18 months, I am also learning to sort of explore the world a bit on my own. I’m starting to look at the ideas that were planted in my head and I’m sort of starting to think, “Eh…but, that’s not really how it is, is it?” No, I answer to myself. And the idea of “give to get” is the first planted idea that I am “outting” as a false idea. It’s a myth, a legend, like the unicorn or…well, other myths. Here, let me show you what I mean.
The Myth of Givus Togetus
Once upon a time, there was a poor soul who started tweeting and facebooking and blogging and doing other things with “ing” at the end. The name of this non-gender-specific personage was Givus Togetus. It was Givus’ belief that the more that was done for others, the more would be received. In the online world in which Givus lived, this meant that if you did a favor for someone, when you needed something they would be there to have your back. If you stood up for someone in a tight spot, why, that person would be on the look-out for ways to help you. Givus noted that similar ideas lay at the foundation of most major religions. But that’s for another time. The End.
“But in the real world, there are things that we can’t change…”
So sang my man Roy Orbison, and boy was he right on that one. He probably was not singing about social media or the give to get myth, but the concept is basically the same. To wit, most people give so that they can get, and the getting far outweighs the giving in most scales of measurement.
For example, this pattern of behavior really cracks me up. Tell me if you’ve seen it before. So, you do this nice thing for a person. Yay, how nice of you, long live Givus Togetus. In return, the person writes a post on his or her own blog site and mentions you. Nice, right? Except that best practice indicates that once you’re mentioned in a post, it’s good to promote said post as a thank you, or at the very least comment on it. Logic also indicates that if you drive traffic to a post, that is beneficial to the site owner. So, while you did get a mention in the post, you are actually giving once again to that same person. Kind of sneaky, right?
As they say in one of my all time favorite movies, Chicken Run, “Let’s face the facts, ducks.” People aren’t inherently evil, for the most part, whether online or offline. But boy are people self-centered. The concept of give to get sounds really good, and you can do a lot of giving and say that you are walking that walk. But if you are giving in ways that are actually getting, or if you are getting a lot more than you give, you are sort of missing the mark. Most importantly, if you are giving, literally, just to get, you are also missing the point. It’s all about Karma and what you send out and getting in the end the love that you make and other fluffy things. It’s nuanced, baby.
And most people just aren’t living in a nuanced world. At least from what I’ve seen.
Myths are nice because they show us how the world could be, or maybe how the world allegedly was at one time. But many myths prove only to be things that Joseph Campbell tells us about, and nothing more. In my experience, it seems that the concept of giving to get in the online world is a mythical creature named Givus Togetus, who is buried with King Arthur and Sir Lancelot somewhere in the hills of the UK. Probably near Abbey Road.
What do you think?
Image by Anu-Liisa Varis. http://www.sxc.hu/profile/busangane
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I have found that the Gift Economy falls apart online for some reason(s). Give to give, or you’ll oft be disappointed.
@KatCaverly And that, quite simply, is why you rock my socks 🙂
Like the real world there are good and bad. But if you stand in a room full of sharpies, the scale might tip a little more the way you’re seeing it.
@ToyotaEquipment I wanted to paint with the broadest of broad brushes. Just this once! 🙂
Love this: Givus Togetus…ha, ha. In my offline world it is very easy to intuitively recognize someone is operating with Givus Togetus because of the volume of ppl I have experienced by this stage of my life. Finding the case to be the same online: the greater volume of people I get exposed to online the quicker my Givus Togetus Attenas go up. With all that said, I am ok with folks playing in the Givus Togetus game as long as I am aware that is the context I am conversing with them….if the relationship is a one sided Givus Togetus experience for to long I will be doing like Taco Bell….Running to the Border.
@hospitalityfan Ah, running for the border. Or just plain running, as it turned out 🙂
Do you feel it’s easier to identify Givus Togetus offline than it is online? It seems like everyone seems a little rosier in the online world, doesn’t it?
@margieclayman
Yes, to your first question. Seems if I cared to…I would ask a question or two… this would provide cues to indicate the level of “Giveth Togetus.” It is already evident to a certain degree right? For example, reading a DM for a special offer one minute after I follow someone on twitter? Hello, you have not even bought me a drink yet? Do you think there is a “social online” skill set that can provide you any insight to how much someone exhibits their Giveth Togetus gene?
Your second question: “Does everyone seem a little rosier here in the online world?” Not everyone for sure. To dispel that belief, I suggest to anyone click on Twitter’s trending hashtag late at night and you will discover a whole world of tweets that make Dog from “the Bounty Hunter” squirm and make you feel like you need to repent at church asap. Wow…talk about culture shock. Other more civilized conversations that are not rosy but informative I see in the Techcrunch comments…very direct feedback which I love.
Just like the offline world, there are certain behaviors that get rewarded and others that get penalized within context of that community. Right? Not looking for a rosy answer.
Social marketing, search optimization tactics, content marketing, and other “inbound” techniques are still marketing. If you are giving to get, you are marketing. There is nothing wrong with marketing, it is a core discipline of business. If you are giving as a marketing strategy, then you should compare the ROI to other marketing options.
I enjoy social, and I am a fan of SEO. There are often more appropriate paths to more sales, however. As @KatCaverly said, “give to give.” Marketing is about selling.
@jpJeremy Hmm. That’s a pretty pragmatic definition of marketing. Truth be told, I’m not sure marketing can survive if people have that mindset. We’re already hearing that marketing is actually what your customers want, not what you want to achieve. Indeed, marketing via Social Media is evolving into a scenario where people don’t really want to hear about or think about what the marketer is getting. How will it help them? That’s all that matters.
As for SEO, the giving to get is also getting rather much lenient there. The link stuffing and other black hat practices are getting way out of control, sadly.
Thanks for the thought-provoking comment! 🙂
@margieclayman Of course marketing is “what your customers want.” Steve Jobs didn’t succeed by selling things he didn’t think people would want. The point is, though, Steve’s motivation was simple: sell more. If that means coming up with new products, so be it. Marketing is a huge discipline, but it is the offensive side of the game.
Marketing is one of the oldest professions in the world. It will always survive because people always want progress.
Nice to talk in more than 140!
MC Media,
I think “Give to get” still applies. I think it is extremely hard to quantify who is coming out on top of the exchange. For example: I commented on a couple of your posts this week. My analytics tell me that I received 4 page views from your site. Who got the best of that exchange? (Well, me but I’m building, okay) More importantly, if you and I establish a relationship, at what point do we stop quantifying the exchange; The exchange has mutual value. Way back in my days of disposable income, I had a couple of good friends with whom I would go out with on a regular basis. Sometime I would pay, sometime someone else would pay. No one kept score and if at the end of the year anyone was up $10 it was a one-sided year. So… “the give to get” model is working optimally when the score keeping ceases.
@barryrsilver You’re right, as per usual. It’s the old catch-22. The more you say, “OK, I gave, what do I get!?” The less you get. As soon as you stop caring what you get in return, you find yourself enveloped in warm and fuzzy feelings and wonder how that happened. It’s the darndest thing. But that’s the part that I’m not sure people really get. Like you say, there’s a lot of scorekeeping going on.
I really like what Barrysilver said in his comment below. For survival we all have to get something out of an interaction or what is the point? We are social beings and every single interaction we have impacts us either negatively or positively (maybe even neutrally?)
If I smile and say hi to you and all I get in return is a snarl why would I bother to do it again? Who likes or needs snarls? Even Mother Teresa had to take care of herself first in order to give back to others. I am sure some of her expectations were that the people she was striving to help would at least make some sort of attempt to either better themselves or pay it forward. The very least they could do is show appreciation in some small way.
I think what is most important is the attitude you display when you are engaging with others. You can always hope to get something in return, just don’t expect it. Many times the sheer joy of knowing you made someone’s day is all you need to receive. I don’t think it’s even possible to Givus to Notgetus something?
@Fierce_living so well said, Jim. But unfortunately, I think there are people out there, as sad as this is, who know the actions that get them the results they want. It’s the people who mention others just to get the tweets, with no real intention of actually building that person up. The person who leaves one-line comments all over the web just to help with SEO.
They’re out there. But we can beat ’em up 🙂
@margieclayman Yes we will kill em with kindness and dilute their efforts by spreading webbus joyus 🙂
As a psychologist who has studied such nuanced things as reciprocal behavior (but I much prefer the term “Giveus Togetus”) it is true that this give-to-get isn’t black and white as it has been held out to be.
However, being a giving person, sharing thingss that are relevant to a group, does, on average, lead to better things then hoarding good ideas and smiles in a cave.
The problem arises when the ‘give-to-get’ becomes a business model or a marketing plan.
But, stepping on a mini-soap box, all of these marketing ‘matras’ are bunk, right? I mean my business isn’t your business, isn’t her business, isn’t his business. Anyone who stands up and says “Doing X works..” isn’t telling a whole story. Because what they are saying is “X works for my business..” I feel we need to move our conversations about social media up a level from playing together in 1st grade, to adult conversations about how to really relate and engage in compelling ways that make people feel good and build a business in parallel.
@susangiurleo ooh, I like adult conversations! Are those the ones about haters and calling BS?!? 🙂
Thank you for your professional opinion, Doktah Gee. I’m looking for help in getting the world in general to accept the term Givus Togetus and I feel your professional influence will help a great deal. I mean, it sounds kind of Latin, right? Latin is the language of things that are true. Or so I’ve heard.
Carpe Diem! Adult conversations, here we come!
And yes, most things people say are bunk. That is my professional opinion 🙂
What do I think?! (Well as soon as I clean all the coffee I snorted all over my keyboard reading this I’ll tell ya!)
Margie, I think you are right. It is sad, but I think you are right. I’ve met and learned from so many great folks since I started in February…. But. I do learn (and I’m awfully proud of that), I do listen, watch, read, research, backtrack and dig. It is true.
I want to believe I… that we, can make a difference. I believe we can, one person at a time, but there’s a whole lotta people and a finite amount of time. (not to mention I am not allowed to use a 2×4 at full swing on the stubborn ones)
Karma. Yeah, I was thinking a lot about that with what was going on out in my world this fall. It sure seems like it works. But I think it only works if your heart is in it, for others.
You crack me up… boy you sure have such a lady-like way on a rant!
~Amber-Lee
@girlygrizzly Lady-like? Darn. I was really trying to get wild and crazy here 🙂
Sorry I made you snort out coffee. I’ve done that before. Well, pretty close. It really really hurt, but my nose wasn’t stuffed up for a few hours afterwards. Pretty exciting.
Karma is a tricky beast. As soon as you don’t care if you get what you give, you get what you give. But that can’t be why you stop caring. Woosh.
Yes teacher but; I’m raising my hand so please call on me.
I’m going to have to respectfully disagree with you on this. I came into social w/ very, very low expectations. All I knew how to do was give and quickly learned I needed to be willing to give w/out any expectations in return.
No, not every ‘gift’ has been reciprocated nor has it been tit for tat in every instance; but I will say I feel like for whatever I have given I have been repaid many times over. Most people have treated me pretty well. For instance, I come by here don’t I? I don’t expect anything in return; I’m here because I think you are very talented and I enjoy knowing you. End of story……….
I have no hidden agenda; I just want to engage. Throw me a crumb and you might have a friend for life.
That’s my take on it, you tell me if you think I’m wrong.
Margie – This is a broad generalization. It sounds like something bad recently happened to you.
I still believe that what John Lennon said is true, “Instant karma is going to get you.”
I do believe in karma; what goes around, comes around; and pay it forward.
Depending on your expectations and requirements, SoMe can be very beneficial. I have become your friend due to SoMe and made many other friends the same way and would not give this experience up for the world.
[…] talked about the “give to get” thing before. In truth, the concept is a really nice one. If you promote someone’s […]
i have not read your article, i’m tired and i just want to comment on the very concept of giving and getting.
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you’re born into this world. no one takes care of you. you die.
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if you don’t give, in some form or manner, if you don’t express the need for food for example, if you don’t give to the world a CRY for HUNGER, you’re gonna die.
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if you don’t give to that farmer the understanding he needs that if you don’t eat you’ll die, he won’t give you food!
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if you don’t give to mother earth the time and effort and creativity it takes to grow food, you’ll die.
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if you don’t give to yourself the focus and determination to hunt down that deer, you’ll die.
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if you don’t give in some form or manner, you don’t get.
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this is the very core of life, of capitalism, of pretty much how this universe works. you gotta give SOMETHING to get SOMETHING.
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it may not be what you wanted, but you got something because you gave something.
also, regardless of the motivation behind giving, the laws of nature still applies, to get you must give. its just cause and effect. for an effect to happen, there has to be a cause. for a reaction to exist, there must be an action.
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of course people are self centered, it’s what keeps us alive in the first place. of course if you happen to come across the uncommon individuals who seem less ‘self centered’ than the many others you’ve come to develop a disdain for, those ‘uncommon individuals’ have simply realize 2 steps ahead already that beinging different from the majority and seeming more ‘moral’ and ‘selfless’ than your average Joe, would give them the impression of a more ‘developed’ individual and therefore more valued to make a connection with (and to procreate and what not… biology dictates)
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anyway i digress
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uh its not a myth, its reality, cold and disgusting, our minds love to create fantasies and utopias to help ourselves cope with the grim reality, its one of those psychological tricks that keeps the specie alive through confidence, faith, beliefs, w.e. you call it, god…
you got our response in this comment section because you posted an article. you got because you gave.
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if there’s any situation, any at all, that seems confusing, just ask the 2 universal questions:
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who/what is giving?
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who/what is getting?
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you add up all the giving and all the getting and you’d find that the equation is balanced. giving = getting. chaos theory or entropy or w.e. you call it just mixes it up so badly like the friggen big bang, but no energy or information is lost at the end of the day… at least that’s what physics is telling us.
one last thing, please forgive me for my ranting, its been a long day, i needed someone or something to listen to me, and here i am…
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you complained about how the getting don’t really add up to the giving… well yeah the world is chaotic as fuck. things break down the moment it leaves it source.Â
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but if you take a moment to appreciate everything you already have… you’d begin to realize that … everything you gave… really do all up one way or another… most likely not right away, but it’ll come around. just give it a little bit of time dilation. it’ll always come around because it’s already here, you just don’t perceive it, its too small, insignificant, for our senses to pick up. we are just human after all… even the best sensors in the world like those official time keepers that keeps time to like the 50th decimal… they have limits as well… heck even the speed of light isn’t all that fast when you put a number on it.
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so all those motivational speeches, advice people give you, its true… some people work a day job, they can’t only give so much work in a job… the world don’t perceive it as much as someone who say owns a factory and whole sales millions of t-shirts in that same time you worked behind a computer screen in a cubicle for 8 hours…
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that’s what wealth is, you spend and invest your time to build your foundation and that foundation is how much you can GIVE at any given time. you constantly give like bill gate’s Microsoft and you’d get a million bucks for every second you sleep. you don’t spend your time and money and resources building your foundation to GIVE and you get well that paycheck every Friday which i’m sure most of you know doesn’t really justify how much you thought you gave. its certainly doesn’t but in a way it does, you spent all that time being a gear instead of build your own gearbox…
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you get what you give…
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