As I have been working on my marketing myths series at ye olde blog, I have become more sensitive to other, how can I say, confusions that exist in the online world. Lines are perpetually blurred. Terminology is consistently used in situations that really don’t warrant those terms. You get the idea.
Two areas in particular keep coming on to my radar. First, there is an oft-overlooked difference between truth-tellers and jerks. Second, there is a mighty big difference between creating link bait (or comment bait) and actually complimenting a person. Let us explore these areas together, shall we?
Jerks versus Truth-tellers
When I was a kid, like, in eighth grade or so, I thought it was my job to be a mirror of the soul. Well, to my friends, not to myself, of course. I would call my little friends up after school and say, “You know, what you did during choir today made you look really bad, I think.” Then I would proceed to analyze their behavior, describe to them why they were doing what they were doing, and then, being a kind soul (mostly), I’d offer advice on how to eradicate the complex problems I was sure they were experiencing. To me, it seemed like I was just being a truth-teller. Based on how my friends responded to these missions of soul-seeking, I’m thinking they felt rather much like I was a jerk.
In the online world, we run into the exact same kind of scenario, except that there seems to be more pressure to be that truth-teller, right? You want to be the person who tells that so-called a-lister that they are dead wrong about something because in your head, it feels like you are doing lots of people a favor. You are saving them from a world of bad experiences. And in fact, this may be true. But have you ever noticed the vitriol that surrounds these online truth parties? The person who is having truth fed to them often refers to the truth-tellers as haters. And so the conversation devolves into name-calling, mob-fighting, and other things that have come to signify all of the least attractive aspects of the online world.
How can we differentiate between when we are being truth-tellers and when we are being jerks? In my own case, it turned out to be all about a sense of self-righteousness. In other cases it may be about motive. Are you trying to get attention or do you really believe what you are saying? Are you really trying to tell the truth or are you trying to get some spotlight for your own thoughts and feelings?
More to the point perhaps is how you deliver the truth (or what you perceive to be the truth). If you reply with a patronizing or condescending tone, the likelihood is that people will not accept what you are saying as helpful. If you approach the topic from a point of truly wanting to help, what you send out will be more in line with what you (hopefully) wish to receive.
Too often I see people revert to what can only be described as a jerky way to attack bloggers in particular. Saying that a post is stupid or that an idea is stupid is not shining a light on the truth. It is only belittling the person you are talking to. What is the line between truth-teller and jerk? Are you treading it carefully?
Link Bait versus compliments
The other thing I’m seeing a lot of is link bait or comment bait masquerading as complimentary posts. How can you tell which is which?
Let me give you an example.
I came upon a post not too long ago that was titled something like, “Blogs to watch in 2012.” I was excited because I thought, OK, maybe this is another list of “up and comer” bloggers that I can get to know. Towards the top of the list were the following blogs – Robert Scoble, Chris Brogan, Copyblogger, and Jeremiah Owyang. Now, these are all great blogs, no question. But do we need to be informed that we should “watch” these bloggers? Even people who may not know a whole lot about social media tend to have a passing familiarity with these folks. None of the blogs (or bloggers) were really described in detail – in fact, only the first few lines of the “about” page was copied in most cases. Blogger names were not given, just the name of the site. In this kind of scenario, one can only assume that the motive here was link bait (or comment bait…or both).
Now contrast that with the list that Danny Brown produced at the beginning of 2012. In this list, which was also called “bloggers you should watch in 2012,” Danny led with the blogger’s name. He detailed what he liked about each person’s blog, which also indicated that he reads each blogger’s work regularly. The names were names not everyone might be familiar with (I was not aware of all of them) so there was an opportunity to build up the following for legitimately awesome but perhaps underrated bloggers.
See the difference?
Lately, Forbes in particular has been dotted with the same sorts of “top of social media” lists, and it is giving the concept of blog post curation or curation of any kind a bad name. Throwing up blog sites that have hundreds of thousands of subscribers is not doing anyone any favors, especially if it isn’t even clear whether you’ve ever read a single blog post from those sites. Those folks don’t really need help with exposure or publicity – they’re doing quite well. The problem is that often times people who genuinely deserve some kudos and appreciation may get overlooked in the midst of a post that otherwise looks like nothing but a scam.
I love making lists to shine the light on people who I think are great. It’s one of my most favorite things to do in the online world, because to me, that’s what the online world *should* be all about. Heck, that’s what the world world should be all about. But even I have been accused of writing these posts just to get comments or trackbacks, and it’s gotten to the point where the joy in writing such posts has mostly departed. I do not want to take the time to curate great posts only to have it fall into the same disdained group of scam posts. I’m sure many other people feel the same way.
To me, paying a compliment is something easily identifiable. If you show that you really believe what you are saying, people will (most of the time) take it for what it is. If it’s clear that you were just barfing up top names or sites with no real sentiment attached, that is not something that will be viewed as complimentary. Rather, it will be viewed as nothing short of a sham, a scam, and/or crap.
Two Poles of Problems
To me, these two issues represent two of the most omnipresent problems in the online world. People who are masquerading as truth-tellers but are really just jerks are giving a bad name to anyone who really believes something or really has an important point to make. They make everyone feel defensive and skeptical.
Similarly, the penchant for writing posts specifically to get traffic or comments or links is despicable, but spreading swiftly. These kinds of posts give a bad name to anyone who truly wishes to promote others, thus feeding the never-ending cycle of self-promotion (because the alternative will only make you worry, right?).
What can we do to more clearly define these differences? What can we do to make the online world less polarizing?
I’ve said my piece. Now I’m ready for yours.
First image credit: http://www.flickr.com/photos/malurisho/2924173228/ via Creative Commons
Second image credit: http://www.flickr.com/photos/clover_1/2259985318/ via Creative Commons
Third image credit: http://www.flickr.com/photos/christinehawks/2788148212/ via Creative Commons
Fourth image credit: http://www.flickr.com/photos/arsalank2/3746601623/ via creative commons
Very interesting insights, Margie. I sort of want to say more, but I think I’m just going to leave it at that – good insights for which I’m grateful as they got me thinking!
@BruceSallan1 Aw, I’m sad you won’t divulge further. But thanks 🙂
@BruceSallan1 I like the way I have seen Bruce handle disagreement.And I can say that I have disagreed with him on more than one occasion. But that sleazy, sly trickster got me to keep coming back, tweet his links, and retweet his tweets!
It’s frustrating and I like that about Bruce. He knows how to turn trolls into friends. That said, he also knows how to bait, hook, and reel in the trolls like a pro. [grin]
Margie..
I HATE and DETEST repeating myself. BUT!! Please let me…WOW!
GREAT POST. (period)
I, obviously, don’t have the restraint your friend Bruce has, cause I’m gonna say more! (not that my comment will actually be accepted by the HATED Livefyre!!)
In particular, this post is a perfect example of why I HAVE to come here or there or over there, where ever you may be. YOU, Marjorie, are MY example of “Be Who You Say You Are.” I have to read these posts, to find out what you’ve been pondering because when I come over, I KNOW #1- it’s usually very important to me as a person, that I am trying to grow into and out of. #2- It’s usually important to me as a blogger, FB-er, twit, and web master for Pioneer Outfitters. #3- No Bullshit. No hinting around about a topic you want to talk about, but are afraid to actually state what (specifically) you are talking about.
….There are more reasons, but these are the biggies to me. I feel like I am a better me, having known you this last year. Not because I want to BE Margie Clayman, but because in you I see the attributes I respect and care about the most. The pieces of you that I aspire to have in my own repertoire, my way.
THIS post! YES!! I noticed this, and actually I read the same “Blogs to watch in 2012” !! and ya know what? I did NOT read THAT post of Danny’s BECAUSE of the previous one. It just struck me …wrong.
Thank you for saying (as always) what needs to be said. I like your lists! I even printed like 30 some odd pages of the blogs from a list you had made…probably at the beginning of last year! And I still haven’t met all of them!!
Big smile.
~*~
@girlygrizzly Wow. Thank you. That seems rather inadequate given this comment, but it’s the best I can do.
Thank you!!!
Hi Margie,
I don’t expect that we will see any of the behavior you listed change because for lack of a better description, it is all part of the human condition. We will continue to see people comment about others for all of the reasons you listed.
Some of the conflict that will arise will happen because of a misunderstanding. Maybe the writer wasn’t clear or maybe the reader didn’t really digest/understand what they read.
There will continue to be moments of blog envy and jealousy. I can’t think of a time where I haven’t see posts that were derived from that. I include myself in that group, even though I try hard to focus on my part of the world there are moments where I ask why XYZ got such and such and grumble about how I am better/smarter/whatever.
I think that the best we can do is try and be aware of this and attempt not to give in or succumb to those moments.
@TheJackB you’re probably right, Jack, that envy has a lot to do with it. Isn’t that sad? From what I understand about online success, it’s a never-ending catch-22 experience. You work harder which means in order to keep up that level of success you have to keep working harder still. You are more open to attacks and insults. The expectations on you are higher.
Doesn’t sound too fun or enviable to me. But then I’ve always been a little weird 🙂
@margieclayman It really depends on what your definition of success is. I did an audio post about the best way to blog that has generated a lot of feedback, most of it via email. People get a little crazy with this stuff.
Love it! And I love your lists. I think it is clear you know the bloggers and posts in depth aka compliment when you highlight posts or blogs. I always click when I see your titles like that because I know I’m going to get quality.
Great, great post (as usual).
@MomInManagement Thanks Daria. I hope people know that my intentions are good, but you can’t always go by that. And of course there are tons of people who see my posts who have no idea about who I am. What kind of snap judgments might they make? Hard to tell, huh?
Margie, well done! The world is full of name droppers, self-proclaimed gate keepers, jerks and egos. That’s not an issue exclusive to the online world. The Latin term necessary here is caveat lector or let the reader beware.
If you want to capture the magic of the social web, get off the social web and connect on a human level – in person or on the phone – will those people you may meet here. If you want to be led by the self-proclaimed leaders of all knowing things and stuff, be careful.
Margie, well done! The world is full of name droppers, self-proclaimed gate keepers, jerks and egos. That’s not an issue exclusive to the online world. The Latin term necessary here is caveat lector or let the reader beware.
If you want to capture the magic of the social web, get off the social web and connect on a human level – in person or on the phone – with people you may meet here with whom you build a human connection. If you want to be led by the self-proclaimed jerks who stand on soap boxes and peer down to the great unwashed with their self-proclaimed expertise of all knowing then you have been warned. if you give it an audience, you feed its voice.
@KnealeMann i think I may have hit one of your buttons :)Beautifully put, as per usual. It’s like what people always say about trolls. If you keep feeding them they are getting exactly what they want. So it is with jerks of any kind. Or people who just simply want attention. It is no surprise that giving them attention just makes them want more.
And so it goes 🙂
Margie, you are a very special blogger. Seriously.Very fresh. I’m also very tired of link baiters and time wasters.
Thanks for the fresh thoughts and awesome blogging. I missed you while I was gone.
@Biebert Well thanks sir. Very kind of you and much appreciated 🙂
I guess I fall into the category of “jerk.” Recently, I pointed out to a blogger (not a writer, really, just an aggregator on a blog about gizmos) that “shutted” is not a word. Within minutes, I got personal emails from the guy filled with profanity, attacks on me as a writer (he described original writing as being pulled from a certain part of my anatomy, as opposed to his profession of simply reposting tidbits from around the web), attacks on my place of residence and on pretty much everything about me. The proper response would have been, “Thanks. I’ll fix that.” Instead, he showed himself to be a child and reflected poorly on his employer. He turned a regular reader into a non-subscriber. When people point out my writing errors or other technical mistakes, I thank them, and I fix them. Seems we have created a generation of folks who can’t tolerate even the slightest bit of feedback unless it is complimentary.
@Kim Phillips Sounds more like the blogger is the jerk. That’s a good point – you can also be a jerk on the receiving end.
I will say that people tend to be very sensitive about things like spelling and grammar, especially if those are things they are worried about in their every day writing anyway. I usually try to refrain from criticizing on that level within the comments because it is easy to interpret that as me trying to out-do you. I try to leave a DM or an email, but even then the person can misconstrue your intentions.
Sorry you had such a bad experience!
@margieclayman Not your fault. And you write a nice, civil blog. :0)
@Kim Phillips Feel free to submit emails with proposed edits to my blog posts, anytime. If you do it regularly, I’ll make it a point to send you a hug and thank you. Often.
This is something I think about all the time. I am beginning to understand the importance of context for everything, even a blog comment. I will admit I most often don’t write opinion pieces or comments because I am afraid they come of as being purely self-promotional. Now that I am more confidant writer the urge to voice my opinion has gotten stronger. I finally have a rant category on my blog where I have been spending a lot of time speaking about my views on search. Sometimes I find I butt heads with the experts and sometimes I agree. It just seems important to keep up the dialogue as the idea of a social SEO develops. Yes, it may look like I am taking advantage of the trending news cycle for views, but that is what I want to talk about right now.
I can understand your frustration with list post curation. If I read something called “best blogs” I want to know why they are the best. Sometimes I like the massive list posts with 400 or so links, but it at least needs an introduction on why you collected the resources. I am not expecting an author to have necessarily read all 400. I just want to know why the subject interests them that much. Something that will connect with me as a reader.
@susansilver Hi Susan,
The difference between offering an opinion on a blog site and promoting oneself is difficult to analyze. I mean, let’s face it, this site is my name dot com. Anything I post here is going to have a flavor of self-promotion, and I had to make peace with that when I decided to buy my own domain. I think it’s kind of silly, actually that there is a margieclayman.com. I also think it’s beyond crazy that so many people come to talk with me here. I mean, who would have ever thought that we could type some words and people from all over the world would see it? And then TALK about it?!? It’s ridiculously crazy.
All of that being said, the best thing you can do, in my opinion, is to keep a level head about it. Having a blog site doesn’t make you the best thing since sliced bread. Even being a good blogger – that’s great, but in the grand scheme of things it’s not enough to warrant a statue or anything else. Say what you want to say, understand that it’s a great privilege to be able to do so, and be amazed when people come to talk with you about your opinions.
That’s what has worked for me, anyway :)And fair point – maybe the blogger who is curating sites hasn’t read *everything* but there should at least be a sense, as you say, that there is some reason for that site to be there. Why should i go visit it? Why are you recommending it? Give me something!
Margie, I’m probably going to be labeled a jerk for this, but it’s hard to deny that some of the section on truth-tellers vs. jerks hold true for this very post. I’m sorry that I am probably being a jerk here (but to be honest, in my head, I’m being a truth-teller).
I’ve been on every side of this, I’ve been the jerk, I’ve dealt with jerks, but I’ve also been the third type of person… the person who calls out everyone for being a jerk in a way that can easily be read as… well… jerky.
Just because something sounds like advice, doesn’t mean there isn’t a whole lot of judgment in it and I can’t help but feel like you’re flirting with the same line you’re pointing out…
You know how your friends in 8th grade didn’t like you pointing out what they did wrong… there’s a good chance that a bunch of us don’t appreciate it much either. Sure, this particular post doesn’t call out the a-listers, but what? Everyone else is fair game?
I’m probably a jerk for saying all that… who am I kidding, I’m a jerk. But in truth, at least I’m jerk enough to say it directly to you.
@MSchechter Hi there!
It was a line I was aware I was treading. If someone feels like maybe I am talking about them, then what have I done? I’ve called that reader a jerk, and that is jerky on my part. But here is the other side of that coin. I wanted people to think about how they relate to other people online. If you are worried that you are leaving a trail of hurt feelings behind you, then maybe this post was enough to make you think about that, even if you end up deciding that I’m just a jerk and you’re cool.
“You” by the way does not refer to YOU, just in general. I’ve seen you around enough to know that you’re not a jerk. You fall into that oft mislabeled group of people who have strong opinions and who verbalize them. Unfortunately, in this online space, that garners, often times, a “you’re a jerk” reaction.
The comment you left here was not jerky at all. I have one ultimate goal for this blog. I want it to become like an online salon (French 18th century version, not Best Cuts). I want people to be able to come here and either agree or disagree with me, agree or disagree with other readers, but have it done with civility. There is a HUGE difference between strong but reasonable criticism or disagreement and merely touting your knowledge in a jerky way to show that you know more than everybody else.
This is the line that so few people seem able to grasp.
If I write something here that seems full of crap, I want to be told. I just think there are ways to educate bloggers without saying something like, “Why don’t you waste someone else’s time?” Or other comments like those.
As for the a-lister thing, I just used that as an example. I have seen comments on countless blogs – Danny’s, Gini’s, Olivier’s, and more, that just make me nauseous because they are so rude and pointless. You always contribute something valuable, as you have done here. And that is what I am striving for.
Does that help?
@margieclayman @MSchechter If you don’t like haircuts, why hang out in the barber shop? Because you can give a better hair cut? I’m sorry, this response seems really off to me.
@geoffliving @MSchechter I think haircuts are fine. It’s the knocking peoples’ heads off that makes me worry – and I don’t think that last part is particularly conducive to anything good for anybody 🙂
@margieclayman @MSchechter So you knock other people’s heads off to make your point? I am still not getting it.
@geoffliving Now your’e confusing me. All I’m saying is that I think people can disagree without being a jerk about it.
@margieclayman But what if it isn’t about how we relate to each other. What if that’s just become some giant distraction that keeps us from actually talking about what’s important, the subject matter at hand. The real problem with this jerk vs truth issue is that it keeps us talking about ourselves (something that is very boring to perspective clients and those trying to figure out this space for their own business) and not deeply examining and debating an emerging space.
For the record, I don’t think you’re a jerk (and I don’t really think I am either, so thank you for saying that . I also don’t think I’m cool :)). I think we are both verbal, opinionated people who care deeply about this space and what it means to our life and our business. I think the problem is that strong opinions get you labeled as such in the first place.
There’s certainly a huge difference between disagreement and criticism, but that line is also different for every person. It’s also extremely different when you (again, the royal you) are the one being disagreed with. It’s just easier to describe someone as a jerk than it is to actually debate the merit of something that is diametrically opposed to the point you’re trying to make.
Debates like this are far more productive than calling anyone a jerk (no matter how true it will be). Sadly, I see this space turning into several monologues rather than a few great debates and a big part of that is all of this haters, jerk, fanboy, a-list nonsense. We need to all take a giant step back and take ourselves out of the picture. We need to all grow a thicker skin and learn to defend our points rather than simply disparage people who disagree with them (again, a comment about the space as a whole and not you’re response).
Because think of how easy it would have been for you to just dismiss me as a jerk… can you honestly tell me that you don’t see all to much of that happening when people disagree these days?
@MSchechter @margieclayman I think there are more civil disagreements than people realize. Since there are no flames involved people forget about them and move on far more quickly than they otherwise would have.
@MSchechter I agree. I write these kinds of posts more as observations than anything else. I am working on a series that I’m hoping will be more productive, focusing on myths about marketing that social media perpetrates or at least feeds. I think that convincing people that social media is a tool rather than the end is an important conversation that needs to happen more often. Could you imagine everyone talking this much about the telephone service? Bo to the RING.
That being said, I think that business people who are using social media could benefit from these conversations on occasion if only to understand that kissing up to xyz person doesn’t really do anything if they’re not in touch with your customers. I think it’s good to toss out there now and then that if you do nothing but act like a turd, it may make people not want to do business with you (then again, it may make other people prefer you over others).
In this particular case, my main goal was just to outline that there seems to be some masquerading of one word for another in a lot of scenarios. “I’m not being mean, I’m just telling the truth by saying that your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries.” I’m paying you a compliment because I’m listing your blog on my site along with 57 others. Not really. To me these are important distinctions, but yeah, there are more important fish to fry.
@MSchechter @margieclayman
For the record, I can be a jerk. Most of the time, I don’t intend to be a jerk, but the outcomes always define how to call it. That said, I have enough outcomes on file to warrant being a jerk. [grin]
Mea culpa.
Myself, I have been thinking much about how to create a safe place where honest opinion and dialogue may freely transact, inspire, and energize.
Yes, I’m not exceptionally bright, so it’s slow in coming to a clear and effective mission and vision.
I’ve realized too that it’s not something that one person can control and execute upon individually. Not effectively. It’s something a community must build and sustain together.
That’s all I got for now. Just another well-meaning intention. You?
@margieclayman “French 18th century version, not Best Cuts”
I’m lovin’ it.
@margieclayman great post as usual. Well, I think @MSchechter comment also hits the nail on the head. I also think that no matter what we do, we can’t make everyone happy.Even if we write a blog post with good intentions it may come across as bad to someone reading it. We never know what “nerve” we are going to strike.
I had someone get mad at me once on a humorous post i wrote about funny things not to do on Twitter. She was upset I advised people not to drive and tweet, including tweeting at red lights. I had recently been in a car accident where a car rear ended me at 50 mph because she was texting and took eyes off the road. Had I not seen her coming, had I been tweeting or texting the accident could have been far worse. I digress… however, my point is that you never know what intentions people have even in reading your blog. They may be jealous. They may not like a product or partner that you work with. There are so many motives that can be coming in to play.
I think it all comes back to the discussion we were having the last two weeks over your blog post and the one you inspired me to write. At some point we just have to take our blog back but with a servant heart to our readers. If we know we are putting our whole self into our writing and delivering the best, most honest content we can I don’t know what more we can do? As I know I certainly can’t make everyone happy and I don’t have the time to even attempt it! 😉 Thanks again for the words of “truth” and inspiration!
@PamMktgNut Hi Pam,
Yes, that is certainly a tough lesson to learn as a new blogger. As I said below, I am not really aiming to write posts that everyone agrees with, because, well, that would be an impossible goal to achieve. I ain’t no Hercules 🙂 I write posts that I hope make people think and that hopefully inspire some interesting conversation. I am interested in all points of view, even those that diverge from my own.
What I don’t think is necessary, however, is being rude or mean when you disagree, and that seems to be the only counter-option to agreeing in the online world right now. Either you’re the best blogger ever and I want to build a shrine to you and please write more so I can eat it up OR you are the worst human being ever and everything you say is stupid.
It’s unfortunate that things happen like what Kim described below, where you offer a simple (and correct) way to improve a blog post and you get labeled in all sorts of creatively mean ways. What does that accomplish? I quote the great cereal – Nut’n Honey.
Thanks for popping by, Pam. I appreciate it 🙂
A couple of weeks ago I had a conversation with a really good friend whose session for a conference was not chosen. She was really upset about it and said, “I guess I’ll have to kiss the butt of A lister and A lister so I don’t get culled again.” That made me really angry and I asked her why she cared. I asked if her clients are at this particular conference. I asked her if either of those A listers bring her business. She said no. The same thing goes with blogging. If you don’t like what people are doing – for link bait or otherwise- don’t read it. That’s why I always say attack the idea and not the person. It’s great to have differing opinions…it’s how we learn and grow. But if all we do is read the social media echo chamber and complain about whether or not Forbes left us out (Mr. D was NOT happy to see I was not on that list), we won’t grow. Focus on what kind of writing helps you grow. Focus on the kind of writing that demonstrates your thinking to prospective clients. And focus on the kind of writing that shows your capabilities to current clients.
One more thing. As much as I hate to admit this, people outside of the social media worlds do not know Chris Brogan or Jay Baer or even Seth Godin. In fact, I spoke at a conference last fall of marketing and communication professionals and, of the 250 people in the room, only THREE had heard of any of them. So, while it may pain us to see the A listers listed all the time in bloggers to read, there can be a reason for it other than link bait.
@ginidietrich I don’t believe that there are A listers. To me it is a useless and somewhat self serving term.
Signed,
Abigail Van Buren the original blogger
@ginidietrich It’s possible, but let me play devil’s advocate. If someone is coming into the social media space based on your recommendations, isn’t that a great opportunity to introduce them to a wide variety of people? Maybe even break lists down into, “Bloggers you should follow if you’re a marketer,” “Bloggers you should follow if you’re into PR,” etc?
I probably would not make any such niche list because I’m all over the place, and that’s cool. I would have loved to have known when I first started blogging that I should follow people who blog about marketing and stuff I do, not necessarily people who blog about blogging. Because really, what good does that do in the grand scheme of the business world?
@ginidietrich Nail, meet head. I think that’s what always drives me a bit crazy on this subject. It’s become more about the people than the work or even the subject at hand. If we just shifted our focus from our feelings to the subject at hand, we’d be stronger for it… as would the space as a whole. Because the real problem is that the fear of hurting someones feelings (and to an equal extent, people’s inability to make a point without doing so) just takes us away from what’s really important, examining and learning about whatever subject is at hand.
@MSchechter@ginidietrich Yep, that’s exactly what I am trying to get at. It’s interesting, I keep running into the following statement – “It’s about the people, not the platform.” People think social media is all about Twitter or Pinterest or whatever it is, but until we learn how to converse about ideas and concepts, people will continue to get disgusted on each platform.
@ginidietrich I think that your “attack the idea” mantra is brilliant but I’m not sure people grasp how to attack an idea *without* attacking the person. The art of civil debate seems to have vanished with the onslaught of social media.
There are a lot of ideas out there that SHOULD be discussed. For example, how come a lot of companies that chucked all traditional marketing out the door to do social media stuff are now losing money? That’s something we should talk about but it is a subject rife with peoples’ ideas. Can we discuss those ideas without saying that such and such a group of people is dumb? It seems like the answer is unfortunately “no.”
I tried to get myself listed on the Ad Age power user list just to see where I ranked number-wise. Out of a 1-7 scale for all of the categories that make you a viable candidate, I scored a 1. That made me feel pretty crappy, but you know what? Being a “power 150” blogger wouldn’t do a whole lot for me anyway. Our clients would probably not have a clue what that really means. Heck, I’m in this space and had no idea there was such a thing as a Todd score.
There is more to life than lists and followers. However, I do believe acting responsibly online is a good idea, whether you’re commenting or making a list or whatever else you may be doing.
@margieclayman People need to go back to debate class in high school. We’re taught how to attack an idea then. It wasn’t all that long ago.
@ginidietrich @margieclayman You’re assuming that people stayed awake, listened and learned. You are more charitable than I am. Twenty-five years later I am more convinced than ever that people didn’t.
I am not kidding about that either. This reminds me of a conversation that I have over and over about how we are raising our children.
We’re bringing them up in a bubble where everyone wins and people expect that they should be given things without working for them. I hate that.
In our effort not to hurt anyone we are hurting everyone. And we are teaching people that when someone says no they should take it personally.
I can’t tell you how many times people have gotten upset because I disagreed with a point they made on their blog. They might have said the sky is blue and I responded that it looks kind of green to me.
That immediately engenders them hunkering down and crying crocodile tears because my POV is different. I never said it was better, but their interpretation suggests otherwise.
@TheJackB@margieclayman Don’t get me started on what’s going on with our society and how everyone wins. I once had a new college graduate’s father call me to negotiate his son’s salary package…for a three month internship. When I stood my ground and said all interns are paid hourly, the guy flew off the handle. Needless to say that kid’s offer was rescinded.
@ginidietrich @margieclayman That is the kind of thing that makes me want to videotape conversations so that I can play them back for the knuckleheads who do those kind of things.
I always want to see their face while they watch themselves speak…
@ginidietrich Shame on Forbes for not listing you, Gini! I shall berate them shortly!
@Faryna You are such a good friend!
Can I just say how happy I am to see you back on a blogging streak without offending anyone? Well, there. I said it whether you’re offended or not. 🙂
@Sean McGinnis Deeply, deeply offended =p
Margie, well. I would like to add thought leaders and copy cats to you list. Building on the idea of the echochamber, everyone wants to be recognized for their perspective. What happens is everyone ends up touting the same perspective. Some have had a hand in creating it, some really understand it and can continue to move it forward as the market evolves, and many are just touting what they heard last.
Is this the equivalent of jerks and truth tellers? No, but it contributes significantly to all of the noise we have today in social media about blogging and marketing and the need shout to be heard over the din of it all.
Margie, well said. I would like to add thought leaders and copy cats to you list. Building on the idea of the echochamber, everyone wants to be recognized for their perspective. What happens is everyone ends up touting the same perspective. Some have had a hand in creating it, some really understand it and can continue to move it forward as the market evolves, and many are just touting what they heard last.
Is this the equivalent of jerks and truth tellers? No, but it contributes significantly to all of the noise we have today in social media about blogging and marketing and the need shout to be heard over the din of it all.
[one typo fixed and reposted…]
@Wittlake I had never really taken notice of the echo chamber I had heard so much about until the last month or so with Pinterest. Oh my goodness. Seldom a dissenting view, seldom anything other than “Pinterest will increase your traffic by exponential amounts.” How many ways are there to say the same thing? I have avoided the topic entirely because, well, wow!
I’ve also made my thoughts clear about the word “thought leader.” While I’m sure the phrase was created with the best of intentions, the way it is used in the online world is often damaging in my opinion and leads just to what you are talking about.
Thanks for the comment and sorry I’m so late in responding!
Very thought provoking post and conversation, which I found via @Faryna . I don’t so much care if a blogger is being a jerk or a truth-teller. For that matter, I don’t like to dwell on that distinction a whole lot in regard to my own blogging. For me, the issue is the quality of the content someone is linking to. If it’s useful and interesting, I couldn’t care less about the motives. That’s what’s so disappointing to me about many of these “Best of” collections. If you build up such big expectation, the content better be pretty doggone good. If it isn’t, it’s going to be a warm day in January before I read that blog again. (Today it’s going to hit 60 degrees in Chicago, so what am I saying here?) But if a blogger is discriminating and publishes quality Best of posts twice a day for pure link bait, good for him/her.
Another way I look at it is publishing versus writing. I suspect that many of us bloggers have mixed motives for publishing anything. Everybody wants to be read. Everybody wants to attract the attention of both influential bloggers and bloggers they admire and relate to regardless of influence. Almost everybody has some kind of professional purpose behind the decision to publish. What I guess I’m a little less forgiving about is people who mix motives in their writing: taking a position they don’t really believe in just to stir the pot or grab attention; using inflammatory language to compensate for not having a point. That type of thing destroys my ability to trust the content.
@BradShorr Hi Brad,
Yeah, you can sort of tell when someone has mixed motives, like you say. It just doesn’t ring true, somehow. But in our current desire to absorb any and all information, we may miss the post or tweet that indicates to us that the person is just blowing smoke. That can start to get pretty dangerous too. Hmmm.