OMG, You Disagree with Chris Brogan?!? I don’t care.
So, I woke up this morning, bright eyed and bushytailed…I have a tail in the mornings, part of a lifelong curse. Anyway…I was awake. Being the savvy Social Media NinGuDi (that’s Ninja/Guru/Jedi all mixed in together…you can use it. You know you want to) that I am, I decided I’d check in to the new and exciting world of Google Plus while my coffee was brewing. You know, Google Plus, that place where everything is bright and shiny and new and different.
So, I was scrolling along and there was a post by Chris Brogan regarding a webinar he’ll be offering soon covering Google+. I scanned through the numerous comments and saw that there were a handful of people who were using their time to take absolutely pointless little picky shots at Chris Brogan.
Yep, you can’t see that on any other social media platform. Wait, this just in…you can see that anywhere in the online world.
So, before you roll your eyes and say, “Oh geeze, another person saying that big names can’t be criticized,” understand that you should read the rest of the post. Because I’m not saying that anyone is perfect. Personally, I agree with the idea that it might be a bit too soon to roll out a webinar about Google+. Then again, I haven’t been at the top of the social media game for like, a decade.
The issue I have with these exchanges is that they kind of make me nauseous, and I really don’t appreciate that. How can I enjoy my delicious summer salad if I feel sick? And the reason these exchanges make me feel sick is because the criticizers are not really talking constructively about the concept. They’re taking personal shots at another person. It makes THEM look bad. Then the big name responds, because no one likes being insulted, and that makes the big name look jerky too. So you end up with a big pile of people who aren’t really jerks but who kind of seem like it.
I have a few thoughts on why these conversations roll out the way they do, whether it’s in a blog post, on Twitter, on Google Plus, or anywhere else. Do any of these resonate with you?
1. People are tired of the same folks getting all of the attention, so they think, “Aha, I will jump into this person’s face, thus be on their radar, and thus get tasty gravy drippings of the attention they get.”
2. People have a legitimate reason to doubt something someone is saying, but they were not successful in “Good Manners 101” and thus they aren’t able to frame their concerns as anything other than poor-mannered blegh.
3. People know that if they are mean enough, they’ll draw attention to themselves and then turn on the charm to show people what they’re really like.
4. And then of course there’s the ole green monster. No, not boogers. Jealousy. Some people are just plain jealous that folks are better-known than them. It eats at them day and night like that flesh-eating virus that LaForge got in that one episode of Star Trek Next Generation. And that just isn’t good.
5. Other?
Excepting the spam bots, we’re all people here in the online world. You’re bound to say something at some point that I disagree with. You might even say something that makes me cock my head to the side and say, “What on EARTH are you talking about?” That’s ok. If we can converse about it, we both might learn something. We both might gain a new perspective. Note, for example, the different emotions that these two sentiments stir within you:
a) You are a dumb (take your pick here…jerk, a-hole…)
b) I disagree with what you’re saying there. In my experience….
I can’t speak for everyone (unfortunately), but for me, this is how it lays out. If you’re a jerk to someone, whether on the offense or on the defense, it affects how I think about you. There is no reason to be a jerk online. It’s irresponsible. It sends a bad message. And if you’re online for business, guess who I don’t want to do business with because I view them as emotionally unstable?
Nooo, not that person. You.
“I’m protecting the world by dissing these guys”
I realize that because my avatar picture shows me with a binky in my mouth that you think I’m an infant who needs to be protected from the big bad sexy big names. And I appreciate that. I really do. But you know what? If I think something smells icky, I won’t go pick it up and say, “Hey, what’s this?” I’ll walk the other way. I can decide for myself what’s garbage and what isn’t. And here’s the real kick in that place you don’t want to be kicked in – we might disagree sometimes about what’s garbage and what isn’t.
Lord have mercy.
But really, there’s plenty of room for civil disagreement in the online world. I became friends with Tommy Walker because we started talking based on something we disagreed about (no idea what now). And if you think you can’t disagree civilly in conversation, write a blog post ABOUT WHAT YOU CAN OFFER!
That’s what will make me want to learn more about you. What’s your story? What can you offer? I can get doses of jerkdom in all kinds of places. If you exhibit that behavior, don’t need ya. If you show me something new and positive and really bright and shiny, I’ll be much more enticed (again, just speaking for myself here).
And if you think that something someone is doing is stupid, do something better. Do something you feel is better than that. Then we all win.
Can you consider that?
This is post #88 in the Engagement Series. I thank you for stopping by!
Image Credit: http://www.sxc.hu/profile/smswigart
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Margie,
This just in. Chris is really smart, see’s the future because he works way harder than most of us and reads more in one day than I do in most months. That’s why people are jealous. They don’t want to work that hard. I just take everything he offeres up for free (or a nominal fee in the communities he is owner of ) and count my lucky stars he’s so willing to share.
That being said I think that means we agree. I just said it a different way right?
Respectfully,
Jim Raffel
Yep, I think we agree. I’m not sure it’s the word Chris does that makes people jealous – I’m not sure there’s a general awareness of how much anyone does behind the scenes, including him. It’s that lack of understanding, coupled with his success, that I think throws some people. That said, it’s okay to disagree with folks if you can do it in a human and civil way. Right?
Mmmm….gravy….
Indeed!
Amen, sistah. I want to eat my summer salad too. Thank you.
Thanks, Nico. Cheers to that!
I liked what Scott Stratten aka Un-Marketing always says, “Don’t feed the trolls”.
I always feel lucky when Chris Brogan offers up his take on things. That’s why I follow him.
Great post, dear Social Media NinGuDi; keep them coming!
Well, I’m not 100% sure it’s always trolls…sometimes people have a good point and just don’t know how to get it across without being kind of…aggressive. But yes, there does come a point when you have to back away from a person. Knowing when is a fine art 🙂
I am so glad you are vocal in the Social Media world.
I’m glad she is, too. Always a voice I appreciate.
Thanks ladies!
What’s my story? I like to watch my neighbors watch TV? I don’t think I really have a ‘story’ yet; I’m just trying to ‘be’. However, I do ‘know’ common decency and know it is ok to disagree in a respectful way.
I don’t have time for prickly burrs, they are truly just a nuisance.
I can make my own choices and if I see someone being jerky, give or take, I’ll probably just take my attention elsewhere.
I want my friends and community to succeed and I will be happy for them, not be jealous.
Sounds like you have things well under control, Mr. Dorman!
Smart, funny and relevant post, Margie! People are obviously going to disagree with each other sometimes on social media, but if they can’t be civil it really does make them look bad. Especially when they throw a stink bomb at someone popular in hopes of stirring up attention for themselves. Not cool. Here’s hoping this post will help you eat your summer salads in peace from now on. @kamkansas
Absolutely, Kathy. I’m certainly not saying, “Oh, hi, let’s all agree on everything.” That would be SO freakin’ boring. I find disagreements can be a lot more educational and interesting. But the stink bombs, as you greatly put it, are just utterly unnecessary. Or to use one of my favorite adjectives/nouns, “Blegh.” 🙂
Thanks for the honesty and candor, Margie.
I can see that this really ticked you off! I commend you for taking a stance on this kind of cyber-bullying, if you will, because fact of the matter is people see and believe what they want to see and believe. I just had a conversation today with someone very close to me about this very topic. We talked about how people can be so quick to criticize and judge because, guess what, they feel criticized and judged all the time. So, why not talk smack about someone else if it will somewhat make us feel a little better about ourselves? It always comes from a place of insecurity. And as we know, it doesn’t serve of anyone.
In an ideal world, we would be much quicker to love and understand than to hate and judge others. It seems an obvious solution. Yet some choose to dwell in negativity and drama. Dale Carnegie said it best, “Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain but it takes character and self control to be understanding and forgiving.”
High five to you, Margie and to Chris Brogan. He is good peeps, truly. He gives SO much of himself and has offered so many gems to me and SO many others; why wouldn’t I want him to make a living doing what he loves and does well? #NoBrainer
Heya Berni, glad to know that you also comment here. 🙂
Anyway, I think you’re both correct in that everybody should try to keep civil online and actually offer something positive rather than brutally criticize big name personalities.
I do have online friends who are quite critical of Mr. B.
I must agree that the green monster may be lurking at times. But sometimes, you cannot discount the fact that the person may have said or done something to merit the negative vibes.
Great points all across the board, Berni, and I love that quote from Carnegie. That guy knew what he was talking about.
It really is online bullying when you start moving beyond “Here’s why I disagree with you” to “Here is why you’re a bad person.”Nobody should cross that line, I firmly believe. And yet…
Danny, you are quite right. I don’t want to seem like I’m saying that you should just stay quiet if someone says or does something you deem wrong or unethical. But you can do those things, even, in a respectful manner. With civility.
Holy cow. You’ve done a great job articulating what I’m thinking.
Cool. Thanks!
Margie, once again you’ve taken people to task in such a diplomatic manner. I am reminded of the quote “Don’t hate the player, hate the game”. Too many people feel that personal attacks are the way to go. Unless you truly need to call someone out for being douchy, criticism should be constructive or kept to oneself.
Remember the book “The Secret”? Truly a book about nothing. Then a movie about nothing. Walt Disney said it a generation before – If you can dream it, you can do it. Yet someone made a book, a movie, an ecourse, and a zillion dollars. Am I bummed it wasn’t me? Sure, but then again I’m mad, too, that I didn’t create the snuggie.
People are gonna hate. It says more about them when they open their mouths to be nasty about another person’s business venture.
I love reading your stuff, truly awesome!
Sara
The snuggie. Hah, yeah, I think a lot of people are mad about that one!
Great analogies there, Sara. Thanks so much!!
I love this Margie. You’re right, people disagree (for the life of me I can’t even remember what our disagreement was about either) you and I disagree on some things still, but there’s a big difference in a constructive disagreement, and just flat out being an a-hole.
Here’s the thing, for the most part, we’re all intelligent people. But intelligence only goes so far in this space. I’ve met some brilliant people who get absolutely no recognition.
But when you call out a big name, you don’t look intelligent. You look dumb. And calling someone out on their own “platform” is like going into the enemies camp by yourself.
What it’s really all about is perspective.
And how we share that perspective with the world.
I think what works between you and I Margie is that our perspective is similar, even if our experiences that helped form that perspective are very different.
I almost always know I’m going to continue talking to a person if we can disagree and remain civil. If the person immediately gets defensive or snotty or snarky, then I know we’ll have a problem. I could tell from our disagreement probably more than folks can learn from agreeing. Agreeing just means, sometimes, that you’re not really listening. Disagreeing with rationales means you’re listening, thinking, and are voicing your own true opinions. I kind of like that mode better.
Much as we don’t want to, insensitive and selfish people are part of our reality. The only way I think we can defend ourselves from them is to just ignore them. I see no purpose in wasting our time–and sanity–with these kind of people. 🙂
Well said, Walter!
Its such a shame that people just like to take a shot at someone for their views (unless these views hurt or endanger anyone). There is also another type of hooded predator on social media platforms, I like to call them the “Self appointed Social Police”. These are a chosen few who have appointed themselves the voice of “Social Media” and like to tweet and comment on blogs as if they have the authority to diss other for what they do and write about, with some sanctimonious attack at what you do. Woops sorry that almost was a rant, get of my soap box now 🙂
Very close to being a rant! Sounds like you have a post cooking there.
Sanctimonious is a good word sometimes, but sometimes people really do feel obligated to point out injustices. Take, for example, this holier than thou post that I just wrote 😀
Damn, Margie, I love this post.
Chris Brogan is people too. It’s okay to disagree with people on the internet, but let’s remember they are people and be constructive. That way the feedback might be appreciated vs. dismissed. Which shines a better light on what you are about vs. what the other guy is doing wrong.
And yes, I just called Chris Brogan the other guy. 😉
Thanks, Chel. So glad. And hey, sometimes he is “the other guy.” We’re all people, and as Pete says in Muppets Take Manhattan, “Peoples is peoples.”
Love that movie 🙂
Preach it! I don’t agree with everything Chris does or says, and I’m certain (in fact, have evidence) that people don’t agree with everything I do or say. But guess what? That’s what makes this work. If we all were in perfect lockstep, how boring would it get?
The problem isn’t people bitching about Chris in public. Remember, the negativity you see isn’t what kills you, it’s the negativity that remains hidden.
The problem is that everyone is a tough guy behind a keyboard, and the ability to disagree without being disagreeable seems to be a lost art, like cooking pot roast or writing popular songs that don’t require Autotune.
Oh, I can’t believe anyone would ever disagree with you, Jay! 🙂
I think your phrasing is perfect. It’s so easy to be “brave” when you don’t have to see the facial expression of the person you’re talking to. Or the facial expressions of their parents, kids, friends, etc. You’re just talking to an unblinking face that looks the same no matter what.
I think too the idea of the hidden negativity is interesting. People let it simmer and boil and then all of a sudden, kaboom. Such a shame.
Thanks for stopping by and commenting, sir!
I know how to cook a good pot roast Jay 🙂 I look at this and think I may need help to understand this new platform. My bosses put a lot of pressure on me to be a “social media expert” and this pressure pushes me to sign up for countless seminars, webinars and read blogs and books at a freakish rate.
Do I think it is based in jealousy? Yeah, and it makes me sad. We often take shots at those who are higher up than we are because as Jay said “we are all tough behind a keyboard”
If I had 47 bucks, I would sign up. Just saying.
Well said, Nancy.
Now please teach me how to cook a pot roast 🙂
I have studied this pattern closely, for the last 1000 days.
100% of the time Brogan has been flamed up,
an [ugly] ulterior motive was exposed in the critic.
100%.
Think about that.
Well, “Ugly” can often be in the eye of the beholder, but I will say that far too often, when someone flames Chris, Chris will turn around and talk to them, thus exposing them to a lot of attention, which is, in most cases, probably that ugly ulterior motive they were after. In a lot of cases I’d just let certain comments roll off my back. Of course, it’s easy for me to say that, right? 😉
Well, a couple guys and their clique shredded his character as a charlatan,
despite knowing he’s done more to help others than the lot of them combined,
and as I predicted, a couple of weeks later the real motivation was exposed;
he dared compete with their npo coaching gig.
Yes, they backstabbed a guy who has been a salvation to 1000 people,
especially over these past few difficult years, and it was all about the dough.
That, is ugly 🙂
I heartly agree with all of this — especially point #1. A lot of clinging to coattails, hope of getting attention by negative feedback. I don’t think I’ve ever seen it work.
(Also, I appreciate the TNG reference. Nice.)
thanks, Maria 🙂
I think there is one thing that warrants consideration. We talk about questioning Chris as if we are questioning a person. That’s often why these attacks feel (and often are) so deeply personal, but the truth is there are two things at play here. Chris the person and Chris Brogan the brand. I agree with you that it is all about tone and tact (something I slip up in from time to time), but I don’t think it is a bad thing to question a business model even if it is someone’s name.
No one would have a problem talking to our business if we did something that they perceived as off, no one would hold back. Hopefully, as we are seeing with Chris, those who know our brand would stand behind us and hopefully we would chose to do more than dismiss those who have questions. But consumers have the right to question products and to a certain extend Chris has chosen to make a part of himself a product and a brand.
Chris and, equally important, Chris’ business model have been at the forefront of this space for a long time now and over the past few months it has shifted. To take the time to discuss not only his shift, but what this means for a space that many of us care about… I just don’t see that as a bad thing.
Hi Michael,
Oh I 100% agree that disagreement would be an AWESOME addition to the online world. I long for the days when we’d be able to have a civil debate about something. I think that people would learn so much more than they might from retweets or “Yeah, check out this awesome post!” That just means you’re agreeing with whatever that person said. But if you disagree and have good reason, man, that really enriches the conversation and the exchange.
It saddens me immensely that we can’t seem to have that here in the online world.
To Ed .. that is an interesting stat and one that I think is found when taking issue with a popular person.
I agree, Margie, it was a “bit” too soon. And I think initially that was the point and then the engagement indeed turned petty and ugly.
I support those who questioned whether he could bring anything to the table not already out there, having only 250 hours experience in a 3 week old platform. He was asked to give a reason beyond what was pitched… a legitimate question. Those that thought that was disrepectful, or childish, or jealous … naw. The ensuing comments, yes.
Exactly right, Phil. Some people raised some legitimate concerns for the point (I think) of conversation. Other people jumped on that and added a sort of contemptuous sentiment to the thread that dragged the whole thing down. It was sad to see.
This issue reminds me of pitching in baseball. Delivery is everything.
Trying to pitch an inside strike and hit the batter instead? That’s people who are stating an honest opinion but don’t realize their tone is out of whack (yes that is a technical term).
Trying to actually HIT the batter? Just like in baseball you’re trying to create anger, a fight, and get some attention. Does that ever work? Not for the poster and not for the pitcher.
When I disagree (and I have even here with you Margie:) ), I try to point out common ground or something positive first. Also I never make it personal.
When someone flames me / trolls / or sicks Darth Maul on me, I just move on. Responding in kind, like trying to beat up the pitcher, doesn’t work.
That is a sincerely perfect analogy. You totally need to riff in a post about that. Brilliant, friend. Brilliant.
And I disagree…we’ve never disagreed! 🙂
Why does it shock us every time someone is rude online? People is people, people. When you get 12,000 people in a room, there’s bound to be 1 jackass. It’s just more visible with Chris because his numbers are bigger and so these issues are more public. Block and go. Problem solved.
The voice of reason. And I quoted Pete saying peoples is peoples before I read your comment! We really are sharing a brain, and I like it 🙂
I’m not shocked when people are jerks. I’m often surprised at the extent of the jerk-osity, that’s all.
Amen. Amen. Amen. And you know, I wind up thinking less of people who can’t come up with something more creative to blog about than dissing someone else, regardless of who they are. It makes me grow weary of the social media stratosphere. And then I read your ever so well-written blog, and felt my perspective and humor restored. If you write something with which I disagree, I’ll tell you so…but tonight, I’ll just say, thanks!
Margie,
The thing that saves me in all the social media soup is my technique I call “skip and scan.” It’s a skill I see younger folks using with the information overload, but older kids have a different orientation. Here’s how it works. The skip and scanners are just looking through content searching for the thing they’re looking for. The non skippers are trying to read everything and getting all crazy when things are not spelled correctly or are otherwise skewed. They fuss and fret, “none of this is relevant!” and so forth. They are looking for what’s WRONG. The skip and scanners are looking for what they WANT, and they’ll find it, because it’s all there.
Anyway, this saves me a lot of frustration. It doesn’t totally address what you’re pointing out here, though. I tend to think people who rise up and slap big name bloggers are simply leveraging the fame to bleed some off for themselves. SKIP. SKIP. SKIP.
Yippee I Oh Ky yay!
[…] Clayman wrote a post called ‘OMG, You Disagree with Chris Brogan’ during her Engagement Series on her blog which she states ‘if you think someone is doing […]
[…] Clayman wrote a post called ‘OMG, You Disagree with Chris Brogan’ during her Engagement Series on her blog which she states ‘if you think someone is doing […]